Cheesy Metal
- Thread starter Mark
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Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
Total fucking necro thread! (not complaining, this thread was just reaaaaly old)
But this is very cheesy.
But this is very cheesy.
Saparmurat_Niyazov
Member
I tend to think of "cheesy" as being unintentionally ridiculous or funny, which isn't always bad, but usually is.
To me cheeze is cheaply and talentless done, such as punk rock of the 7o's, now that was cheezy shit. Rap rhymes are cheezy, power metals anthem choruses are cheezy, KISS was cheezy, gay pop songs are cheezy. Some things that take talent but are over done that are cheezy are: constant steady bass drum rolls are cheezy, shred for shred sake is cheezy, again the writers of formula pop... they got the hooks but its all by design, age old studied and documented formula.
I find it concerning Pat that you have issues with theatrical stuff yet one of your favorite eras of Tull was all about theatrics... as well as Floyd. I love theatrics incorperated and/or evolving into a concept and thus why Im pretty much progressive music or die. Yet I also love the blues which makes much of the presentation of being down on ones luck or upbeat stuff which makes much of the celebration of living.
It has always been my understanding that cheeze was based on cheapness or 0 variance from simplistic formula and thus what I will stick too, not a way for me to insult every form of artist that doesnt "give me what I want". Theres art of all forms I cant stand but I dont throw a simple cheeze statement at it as if to be profound.
I find it concerning Pat that you have issues with theatrical stuff yet one of your favorite eras of Tull was all about theatrics... as well as Floyd. I love theatrics incorperated and/or evolving into a concept and thus why Im pretty much progressive music or die. Yet I also love the blues which makes much of the presentation of being down on ones luck or upbeat stuff which makes much of the celebration of living.
It has always been my understanding that cheeze was based on cheapness or 0 variance from simplistic formula and thus what I will stick too, not a way for me to insult every form of artist that doesnt "give me what I want". Theres art of all forms I cant stand but I dont throw a simple cheeze statement at it as if to be profound.
Slayed Necros
Void
another example: soap operas are cheezy, a basic but only decent movie or prime time show is not cheezy, just a miss.
some movies arent too bad at first but become lost or totally cheezy in the second half, some movies are great but have a cheezy ending, some movies start out cheezy but then the plot thickens and turn out pretty decent... all these examples do not achieve full cheeze status, just segments.
some movies arent too bad at first but become lost or totally cheezy in the second half, some movies are great but have a cheezy ending, some movies start out cheezy but then the plot thickens and turn out pretty decent... all these examples do not achieve full cheeze status, just segments.
DarkBliss
...And okra for all
Everything I don't like is cheesy.God, I hate this word. Why am I using it?
Also, here's a question I posed that was left unanswered by the neanderthals at RYM. I asked: what has cheese got to do with cheesy? I mean, why cheese of all other products? Cheese is fucking delicious. Everybody loves cheese.
Also, here's a question I posed that was left unanswered by the neanderthals at RYM. I asked: what has cheese got to do with cheesy? I mean, why cheese of all other products? Cheese is fucking delicious. Everybody loves cheese.
RedFox742
Power/Prog Devotee
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Something in My Eye
- Jan 12, 2009
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1) Don't dismiss rap as talentless because all you've heard is 50 Cent and Kanye West...listen to some Tech N9ne, Atmosphere, Krayzie Bone and get educated instead of making statements like that
2) Can't have enough of that bass drum...albeit a select few artists totally overdo it at the wrong parts (like Inferno), fast double bass drum patterns is a staple of the death metal genre and should not be considered "overdone", it's like saying gory lyrics are cheesy when talking about Brutal Death Metal..
3) Shred for Shred's sake is cheezy?! I thought this was Ultimate Metal.com?
1. I've heard plenty of rap here and there over the decades, I doubt any of it was whoever the fuck 50cent is. THIS IS A METAL FORUM... LOL
2. Yes indeed all those drummers over due the bass drum into an emotionalless unaccented blur. There are tasteful drummers in metal
3. There are plenty of shreders out there that have emotion and expression, then there are those that just play notes per minute dryer than the Sierra
4. All of metals gore, death and corpse worshipping, and brutality for its own sake IS cheezy and thus why I dont listen to it
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Darkbliss - could have to do with cave cheese (lol), could have to do with the smell of cheese, could have to do with the consistancy of cheese, could have to do with processed cheese, could have to do with the fact that cheese is milk gone bad, because its poor mans nutrition and primarily only good for getting fat, just a bunch of guesses and its "cheeZy" anyhow.
Why does suck mean bad ? I have yet to meet a man that thought a girl who sucked good was a bad thing.... yet we will call them "bad girls" then tell them we love them... unless they are cheezy all the time
"Oh that blows"... "where do I sign up?"
2. Yes indeed all those drummers over due the bass drum into an emotionalless unaccented blur. There are tasteful drummers in metal
3. There are plenty of shreders out there that have emotion and expression, then there are those that just play notes per minute dryer than the Sierra
4. All of metals gore, death and corpse worshipping, and brutality for its own sake IS cheezy and thus why I dont listen to it
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Darkbliss - could have to do with cave cheese (lol), could have to do with the smell of cheese, could have to do with the consistancy of cheese, could have to do with processed cheese, could have to do with the fact that cheese is milk gone bad, because its poor mans nutrition and primarily only good for getting fat, just a bunch of guesses and its "cheeZy" anyhow.
Why does suck mean bad ? I have yet to meet a man that thought a girl who sucked good was a bad thing.... yet we will call them "bad girls" then tell them we love them... unless they are cheezy all the time
"Oh that blows"... "where do I sign up?"
Dak
mentat
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
Oh, I don't have "issues" per se with theatricality. On the contrary, I often enjoy it, and I stated somewhere in that sermon of mine that I object to the continual disregard of music by scholars because of its supposedly "theatrical" nature. I also don't know for certain if cheesiness always spawns from theatricality; I'm asking people to debate the issue. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
Furthermore, maybe all art contains some minute form of theatricality, no? Maybe everything is cheesy to some degree.
I'm of the belief that the theatricality of Floyd's The Wall is actually beneficial to the record and a commentary on the ideas of the "cult of the rock star" and popular culture itself. I'm sure everyone knows the famous story of the crazed fan climbing over the mesh netting to try and touch his idols at one of Floyd's arena concerts. Waters, disgusted with the fan, spat in his face. This event, in my opinion, presents us quite literally with the separation between the artist/artwork and the audience. Waters was disgusted by the voyeuristic fascination that this person had with the band/music. It places the stars upon a pedestal that produces a negative reaction from mass culture (this is similar to Walter Benjamin's idea that in the current age art has become a means to aestheticize politics).
This event partially inspired Waters to write The Wall. The theatricality and extravagance of that record mirrors the insane extravagance we assign to popular icons such as Pink Floyd or other celebrities (not so much Floyd anymore as Kim Kardashian and Lauren Conrad). Floyd is commenting partly on popular culture's fascination with those we deem "artists" (some who perhaps truly are, others who we assign bloated importance to).
So, in the case of The Wall, I truly believe that the theatricality plays an integral part.
Hey, you took a modern art class.
I personally don't believe that whether or not an observer enjoys piece of creative art is irrelevant and should not be a point considered by the artist. I don't take this into consideration when I compose my own music. I write what I would like to hear, not what I think others would. So composition for the observer's pleasure is not the purpose of art (in my opinion). I still do believe that your picture of a dragon can be just as artistic as a twelve-foot phallic obelisk though; I just think it has to be drawn for more than the sake of drawing a dragon. Again, personal opinion.
RedFox742
Power/Prog Devotee
I guess my feeling is, to sound as artsy-pretentious as possible, since the viewer constructs the art (a la Fountain, thank you Duchamp), there's no reason the art can't be made for the viewer. Many of the great artists have despised their own works. I know, for one, Douglas Adams hated writing; doesn't diminish the hilarity of his work
But yep, different opinions. ^^
Also, I like the idea that maybe everything is cheesy in some way. After all, art plays off of our emotions, and human emotion is inherently irrational, right? (*Spock sign*). A cultural item with no element of emotion attached to it is worthless.
But yep, different opinions. ^^
Also, I like the idea that maybe everything is cheesy in some way. After all, art plays off of our emotions, and human emotion is inherently irrational, right? (*Spock sign*). A cultural item with no element of emotion attached to it is worthless.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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Your drawing of a dragon is not art if it's merely an illustration. Art is things. It's the is of artistic identification (a la Transfiguration of the Commonplace, thank you Danto (P.S. a more prudent Duchamp example would have been Bottle Rack (I took several philosophy of art classes))). It is up to the artist to construct a work of art. If a viewer in some manner "makes" something a work of art then he becomes an artist by prescribing an is to an object.
Also, cheesy is a shit term due to its ambiguity and I try not to use it as much as possible because of it, but I most often associate it with that which is so over the top that it becomes embarrassing and comical, almost a parody or satire of itself.
Also, cheesy is a shit term due to its ambiguity and I try not to use it as much as possible because of it, but I most often associate it with that which is so over the top that it becomes embarrassing and comical, almost a parody or satire of itself.
Einherjar86
Active Member
All good points. And I like your "definition" of cheesy (if we can call it a definition).
And you phrased more eloquently what I was trying to say; drawing a dragon simply for the sake of drawing a dragon isn't art. A painting or a piece of music or a work of literature isn't art in itself, but rather its poiesis is.
I guess Im more confused by what theatricality is than cheeze. With "theater" simply being a means of entertainment and cheeze a cheap form. Most all art was intended to be displayed which is the theater of it all, sure some doodle for their own enjoyment or in hopes of something profound coming out and perhaps dont like their work enough to put it out there but I think ultimately everyone wants to be heard or viewed or perform or all and I cant translate all that into cheeze unless its really poor.
Culture for cultures sake is cheezy
following cultural trends such as fashions for the soul purpose of fitting in is cheezy
swallowing up everything the media feeds us in their pursuit of sensationalism is cheezy
Its becoming clear to me as the decades pass that slang terms are often expanded far beyond their origional implication.
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I didnt realize Waters was so presumptious, spiting on people ? Fuck that ass hole regardless how you feel about fandom and some of its over reactions to me that clearly indicates he thinks hes quite special.
Einherjar86
Active Member
He was disgusted not only with the fan, but with himself after the incident. He realized that he had become susceptible to and had in fact succumbed to the side effects of the popular image assigned to him. The Wall was born out of this disgust.
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