Christian metal

[MindMorgue]

Originally posted by AjDeath
Mind Morgue, jump back into your Cricket match will ya. Actually, there is no PROOF for the theory of evolution, that is why it is called a THEORY. And I can think for myself thank you very much, noone else in my family share the same beliefs as me, and I don't listen to you guys, so I think I am doing all right.

<Gotta remember we're not in the pit>

Roger old boy, great to hear from you. Actually I can't stand cricket, but hey, I don't advocate the theory of evolution either, doesn't mean I have to believe in your god though. I believe we were gentically engineered by aliens about 130,000 years ago, not that i'm expecting anyone to agree with me.

I just thought it was amusing to quote Anthrax the same way you did

Of coarse you can think for yourself, just because we are both stating our opinions doesn't mean we're trying to enforce them on each other, and anyway you started it (well before me anyway)

Cheers

MindMorgue.

 

[7 Dying Trees]

Originally posted by LucioArgento


That need for self-destruction is underlined by our obsession with man-made religion and our inherent nature to live in secular societies (primarily spawned from religious ritualistic beliefs).

Science may have created the weapon, but it is religion that pulls the trigger.

Religion, Oil, Control of Natural Resources, Land, Envy, Greed, Racial Hatred, Ethnic hatred, you name it, it pulls the trigger. It's not just religion, it's the parasitic mould known as mankind that slowly creeps over the planet.

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by AjDeath
Actually, there is no PROOF for the theory of evolution, that is why it is called a THEORY.

I've studied geology for four years and can tell you this - there is as much proof for evolution as nearly any other theory in the world...

Feel free not to believe in evolution, but don't deny it's the closest explanation for all the evidence we have...

 

[AjDeath]

Can you explain why there is a veritible forrest of petrified trees stuck in the middle of the geoligic column (I think it is in Nevada) standing up vertically, that's a puzzle no scientist can figure out.

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by AjDeath
Can you explain why there is a veritible forrest of petrified trees stuck in the middle of the geoligic column (I think it is in Nevada) standing up vertically, that's a puzzle no scientist can figure out.

Yes. One exists in Doset as well (and arizona I think). There are ten or twenty such fossilised forests in the world.

What basically happens (depends on the case of course, but its usually the similar) is the forest is living, but then gets flooded with either mud (a possible example is a lahar (volcanic mudflow) or a mudflow of extremely low viscocity) or super saline water (as happened in Lulworth dorset). If this is anaerobic the wood beloew the surface can be preserved (while standing) while the top is decomposed, and then covered over quickly by further sediments. This means the carbon and wood in the trees can be replaced by other minerals as lithification occurs.. the minerals depends on the surrounding rocks, but silica is common. As long as the rocks aren't tilted and are uplifted and eroded (and exposed) you can see a fossilised forest standing as it did millions of years ago... Interesting really, there's one in Glasgow preserved in completely perfect condition - you can walk around the tree stumps, see their bark, and even count the tree rings inside.

Due to the ultra saline water you also commonly get stromatolites (matts of algae) which develop as the water stagnates found around the tops of the stumps.

What that has to do with disproving evolution I don't know, but hey

 

[MindMorgue]

Ajdeath - 0
Godisanathiest - 1



MindMorgue.

 

[AjDeath]

My point is that there have been fosils found and "Carbon Dated"(carbon dating is a fruad because everything gives off different amounts of carbon at different rates, yes even two tulips and such give off carbon at different rates, why scientists fail to take this into account I don't know) have been found in these sites and dated for millions of years, as you all should know, they base these dates on the geologic column, in this case these layers formed because of a flood, so who is telling the truth? Who cares? I can spout my BS and you all can spout your BS all day long and I won't listen to you and you won't listen to me.

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by AjDeath
My point is that there have been fosils found and "Carbon Dated"

Carbon dating only works up to 12000 years or so (its halflife is 5730 years), you have to use argon argon dating (the latest one) for anything older than that

(carbon dating is a fruad because everything gives off different amounts of carbon at different rates, yes even two tulips and such give off carbon at different rates, why scientists fail to take this into account I don't know)

Give off carbon? You really don't understand this do you? Every living thing has carbon in it, ok? A certain percentage of this crabon is radioactive (carbon 14), and is maintained throught the plants/animals life. When they die this starts to decay to form daughter atoms. Then it is a simple procdure to calculate the tario of daughter: parent atoms, and therefore the number of half lifes it has been through and its age...it has nothing to do whatsoever with "giving off different amounts of carbon"

Scientists take into account the fact that carbon could have been added after or removed by adding the plus or minus before all dates...

have been found in these sites and dated for millions of years, as you all should know, they base these dates on the geologic column, in this case these layers formed because of a flood, so who is telling the truth?

Or they were formed on the sea floor/ a marine environment and uplifted

Who cares? I can spout my BS and you all can spout your BS all day long and I won't listen to you and you won't listen to me.

I'm listening, very much so... I'm just waiting for an infallable argument, that I can't (IMO)disprove... There are lots of people around who try and use science to prove creationism, and it usually comes from a gross misunderstanding of the principles they are trying to use...

 

[DisTortorous]

Damnit, i hate smart people...I always get so confused.

 

[LucioArgento]

Originally posted by AjDeath
...so who is telling the truth? Who cares? I can spout my BS and you all can spout your BS all day long and I won't listen to you and you won't listen to me.

Fine, but it's interesting that science explains a great deal (as in Godisanathiests posts), and the religious argument goes no where.

Obviously you are going to believe in whatever you choose, but is there an equivalent detailed explanation of Creationism other than that written in Genesis or by those zealots basing all arguments on 'faith'?

Creationism seems a bit whimsical these days, although I'm sure that it all made perfect sense 2000 years ago when we prayed for a good harvest or how godly miracles helped prevent cancer by praying five times a day facing Mecca etc.

So all of a sudden when religous freaks find out they've got some life threatening disease, the idea of science coming to their salvation becomes a priority, they check into a hospital, and then when everyone is fit and happy again they trundle back off to the church for thanks.

Meanwhile the doctor drives home in his ferrari, heh.

 

[AjDeath]

Heh? Anyways, I am a Hottoper, for those of you that don't know, that means Paver, I work 13 hour days, I am in a band that practices after that, and I work 8 hour days on the weekend at a hospital, I read fantasy to get out of this humdrum abyss we have created for ourselves, if I am going to read anything educational I read History textbooks, I am no scientist and I don't want fancy cars, I make A LOT OF MONEY! But I don't fluant it, I can honestly say that I have worked very hard for everything I have got, so how about we(or just I) not even talk about this bullshit anymore, go to Dr.Dino.com and get some info. I was never persuaded by family or church to believe in what I do, and I believe my beliefs are just as valid as yours, so lets just leave it at that.


And Joey, make Love Not Peace, WTF!

 

[LucioArgento]

I guess I was just trying to make the point that there seem to be viable discussion points on the concept of evolution. However, I have yet to see those same discussion points on creationism other than Adam and Eve and that which is written in Genesis. It just seems too simplistic for me now and I'm always curious to see how people back up the concept of creationism, other than saying that they have faith in God. Whereas everyone accepts science to a point, only the religious can contend with Adam and Eve. Oh well, it's not important because it's never ending.


Yeah man, Make Love, Not Peace. Correct. Get in the Pit bitch.

 

[AjDeath]

I believe I gave you a web site, www.drdino.com Forget all the how to get saved BS, there is a lot of good info on those dvds, if you can find a way to rip them, watch em.

 

[Nesidara]

Metal is about additude and believing in the messages your trying to convey.
POD a Christian Hardcore band, believes in God and Jesus, BUT
they make a point of saying they just want to put out positive music, and they don't care if their listeners are Christian or not.
They just want to offer a positive alternative to some of the negative music out there. Not all of their songs are even about God and Jesus, they're just about being positive and treating everyone with respect

Speaking as a Witch of the Trinitarian Tradition, I think Christian metal can work if the bands take on that same additude as POD. If the music is more of a positive nature and less preachy, then I see no reason why you can't rock out to Christian metal in the same way you would other forms of metal.
Many bands that aren't Christian have written positive songs based on Christian mythology and biblical text.

You can ask the same question of Satanistic Metal.. if we allow whole heartly the one, we should accept the other.
If we want to be as open minded and liberal as we say we are we need to accept each other right?
well the same goes for metal.

I'm also a true believer in
"be happy with the music you listen. And leave the other music you don't like alone, along with their fans."
Live and let live... I know it's hard to do, but it's the best way to be happy.
So if you think Christian Metal is stupid or your pent up Pagan who thinks every Christian in the world owes you something, then leave it at that. Go back to your music and leave the rest alone. Don't bother yourself with Christian Metal, or the fans. Just pay attention to the music you like and the other fans of that music.

Blessings
Nesidara

 

[The Deathrace King]

I'll take this oppurtunity to be completely close-minded, sincere, and perhaps selfish.

I fucking hate Christian metal.

It all comes down to how seriously you take the underlaying messages and philosophies behind metal. Obviously, if you appriciate or even sympathize with Christianity... you don't

 

[Southern Man I Am]

I prefer bands that can touch a broad group of people rather than just a small group

 

[J.]

Originally posted by The Deathrace King
I'll take this oppurtunity to be completely close-minded, sincere, and perhaps selfish.

At least you have the nads to admit it.

 

[FailingAcension]

I could give a rat's ass about this whole thing.

 

[XeyesofcrueltyX]

i'll start off by saying this...

my top ten metal albums are as follows (in no particular order)

Cradle of Filth - Dusk...and Her Embrace
Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Underoath - Cries of the Past
Metallica - Ride the Lightning
zAo - Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest
Type-O Negative - October Rust
Darkest Hour - The Mark of the Judas
Antestor - Return of the Black Death
In Flames - a tie between Clayman & Lunar Strain/Subterranean

Underoath...they're Xian...but they play some of the best fuckin speed metal out there...
Antestor - first black metal album to feature keyboards...they're Xian...
ZAO...more hardcore than metal, but they can do some shredding when they want to...
and forget their last 2 albums...

then there's bands like Vaakevandring, Lengsel, old Living Sacrifice (their first album [Living Sacrifice]) and their third album [Inhabit] are really fuckin awesome...)

alot of bands on SolidState records just fuckin rule...
check 'em out...

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Southern Man I Am
I prefer bands that can touch a broad group of people rather than just a small group

But as long as people don't refuse to listen to christian metal because of it's message/the band's belief, then they can.. Just like many people listen to satanic/heathen metal without holding those views themselves..