Client makes requests-no samples, gates etc... Do you use them!

if6was9

if6was9

Ireland
Jun 13, 2007
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0
36
lreland
I've been at this a few years now and have had a lot of bands asking specifically to not use samples, gates, no reamping on guitars, tuning on vocals etc...

Often they ask because they don't really know what they're talking about. I had a band question my use of compressors and when I quizzed him about it he didn't know what compressors did, just that music was using too much of it nowadays and he didn't like it!

Now my question to you is if a band makes one of these requests, do you ignore it?

For me, I'll explain to the band why I use them and tell them I will use it if it makes it sound better. In my experience thats not always enough though, I've had bands ask me to not use things, agree that it sounded better with the samaples/gates/tuning and still wanted it removed and then try and make it sound like that without using those tools!
 
ignore them

they don't know what they need any better than children do ... you're the adult here

and just don't tell them. If you have to print stuff and then put some empty EQs on tracks to placate them and make them think those are how their natural tracks sound, so be it
 
Are they working with me because I'm the only one around or the only one who could fit their budget, or because they like the sounds I'm getting?

In either situation they can fuck right off. :lol:
 
I've been asked to do that by multiple bands. It always seems that those guys against those tools don't have a good understanding of what sampling/reamping/gates/tuning are, much less why they can greatly help the overall sound. Don't try and explain it unless you're sure they have an open mind and functioning ears to show them the positives it can gain.

Ignore them, print samples/reamped/tuned/gated tracks. I had one guy that was able to see through my tactics once, but once I showed him the alternative, he saw things my way.
 
Depending on the way the discussion flows, I either try to explain why I use sample blending (I never say replacement lol) or lie as a bloody bastard. I think many of us had cases when the drummer insisted on 100% live drums, giving some early nineties black metal bands as the reference tracks, while playing in a, say, modern gothic rock band. Sure thing, mate, as you say:) And they are totally happy in the end, that's all that matters.
How about guitarists insisting on not using tube screamers?:) Or asking to put more room mics on guitar cab to make it sound more "real like it is standing near you".
How about deaf singers who do not want a deesser on their vocals and as much highs as possible?)
Be a liar, do a good thing for your clients.
 
Most of the time I try to find where their comments are coming from. If its "something they heard on the internet" then I don't really listen to them. But if you can figure out that they don't want drum samples cause they heard a CD where the drums were horribly over sampled with one-shots, or that they don't want vocal tuning cause they heard T-Pain, then you know where their coming from and can explain to them that you will do it properly, or just do it anyway but make sure it sounds natural.
 
DestroyTheColossus said:
Most of the time I try to find where their comments are coming from. If its "something they heard on the internet" then I don't really listen to them. But if you can figure out that they don't want drum samples cause they heard a CD where the drums were horribly over sampled with one-shots, or that they don't want vocal tuning cause they heard T-Pain, then you know where their coming from and can explain to them that you will do it properly, or just do it anyway but make sure it sounds natural.
Click to expand...

This.

You get two kinds of objections: vague, nebulous 'heard it somewhere that thats bad' but they have no actual clue, and 'heard examples of it pushed to a total extreme so now they dont like it'.

The other thing to do is point out its used on albums they like that use all the methods they (think they) dont. They come around. Usually.
 
I have always said that clients/musicians are generally always full of shit.

Like the times when they bring their guitar rig and it's something I know won't sound good, so I tell them to leave it so I can reamp and I just set up the mics for appearance and use PODfarm or reamp with something else. They come back to check it out and love it, think it's their rig.

Or when they tell me they don't like EMG's based on myths they have read. Meanwhile, they never used them themselves so have no actual experience to base their opinions on. Do an A/B with his passives and then install my EMG and blind test him - picks EMG every time as the better of the two.

Or drummers that I have had to literally just program all their stuff because the original tracks they recorded had no use other than to reference for programming - and they thought the programmed shit was their tracks just edited and mixed.

At the end of the day, as long as they are happy with the end result, what they don't know won't hurt them.
 
006 said:
Or drummers that I have had to literally just program all their stuff because the original tracks they recorded had no use other than to reference for programming - and they thought the programmed shit was their tracks just edited and mixed.

At the end of the day, as long as they are happy with the end result, what they don't know won't hurt them.
Click to expand...

I think we've all been there.

The latest band I had to work with are all enormously talented musicians, but their tracking engineer was an amateur at best. Had no clue what he was doing, spend 4 hours trying to set up a headphone mix for the drummer to record to. The drummer's tracks ended up sounding worse than cancer, though played much better than average (could have been amazing if he'd been coached better, since it was his first studio recording session). In the end the band just paid me $200 to program all the drum parts - not bad for two hour's work.

The drummer did, however, insist that I use all the "samples" the tracking engineer had made of his kit. Problem was, they were so god-awful I'd have rather used EZDrummer. He couldn't tell at all in the end that I hadn't used his samples, so we're back to that saying again. What they don't know won't hurt them.
 
All that sampling, reamping, tuning and automation ruins the natural feeling of a song.
If the band don't want you to use any of that then don't.
 
@LBTM: No offense man, but judging by your threads I'm going to guess you haven't been engineering very long. Once you have been doing this long enough, 10+ years myself, you will understand what I mean when I say most clients are generally full of shit. More often than not they request "no samples" or "no tuning" or "no compression" (which is just plain retarded) based on an incorrect understanding of what those things even are in the first place. Meaning, they don't really know what they are requesting. Reamping, automation... how do those things ruin a song? If anything, they enhance it. Call me crazy, but out of tune vocals ruin a song for me. Chances are you have heard these things on your favorite albums and had no idea. Chances are you have also heard these things being used incorrectly or flat-out abused and maybe that is where your opinion comes from. "If the band don't want you to use any of that then don't" - sorry but 9.9/10 times, the band doesn't know what is best. If they know so much, why did they come see someone else to record/mix their music?
 
LOL whatthefuck who lets bands request anything for the mix process? They didn't hire you to not do your fucking job, did they?

In which case, are you hiring?
 
RedDog said:
LOL whatthefuck who lets bands request anything for the mix process? They didn't hire you to not do your fucking job, did they?

In which case, are you hiring?
Click to expand...

Are you going to a restaurant and waiting for them to decide what you'll take?
 
LBTM said:
Are you going to a restaurant and waiting for them to decide what you'll take?
Click to expand...
That's completely different. Think of it this way: If you go to a restaurant, you order a meal, but you would rarely tell the waiter what ingredients you want the chef to use. Likewise, you'd tell the mixer what sort of sound you want, and leave him to his own devices to achieve that sound.
 
Twistedrock said:
That's completely different. Think of it this way: If you go to a restaurant, you order a meal, but you would rarely tell the waiter what ingredients you want the chef to use. Likewise, you'd tell the mixer what sort of sound you want, and leave him to his own devices to achieve that sound.
Click to expand...

Agreed but maybe a band want a 90s kind of sound, so in that case would you use samples?
 
I would say use an A and B reference, but you've said you had a negative experience with it, so I would just say screw it and use it. It is their song and all, but you are the one producing it and you need it to sound as good as your ability can provide.
 
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