Client makes requests-no samples, gates etc... Do you use them!
- Thread starter if6was9
- Start date
I recently had a band where the drummer had recorded all their previous efforts.
They asked for no gates, no samples, asked me if I was planning on using compressors at all and when they came in to do final mix revisions asked to start with the kick drum solo'd and proceeded to ask for all the individual elements of the kit to be solo'd in turn.
I told them that I would use whatever tools I felt I needed to make it sound as good as possible. They didn't like me saying that at all...
Turns out they didn't want gates because he was worried about ghost notes on the snare, didn't want samples because he didn't realise you could blend a sample with the audio and not just replace it.
I tried explaining to him how it was pointless soloing all the individual elements and that the sound as a whole is what mattered. What does it matter if the snare bus sounds a bit odd on it's own, it's the sound of the snare bus with the overheads and room mic that people are gonna hear!
The same guy insisted that me hi passing the toms at 40hz destroys the natural sound of them. I called his bluff and got him to tell me when the hi pass filter was on and when it was off without looking. Of course he couldn't tell so we left it on.
Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I see this more and more now, seems like every band has someone who dabbles in recording and doesn't know their arse from their elbow.
ShipwreckSoundWorks
Member
Can't agree with this one more.Are they working with me because I'm the only one around or the only one who could fit their budget, or because they like the sounds I'm getting?
In either situation they can fuck right off.
Usually the younger bands I get are always bitching. I tell them to take it or go somewhere else. (That's not easy to do here.
Max Morton
Member
Lol! The exact same thing with a floor tom and a blind test a couple of years ago
The guy was pretty open-minded though, and we had no problems later.The main thing here is to be really able to clearly explain your point.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
the only potential problem here (as I see it) is you run the chance of making yourself look incompetent because you tried to convince him the Crate would never work and then all of a sudden you have this killer tone that he loves .... "See? TOLD you it would work!"
DeclanWhite
Senior Member
what i do is be a cunt. tell them they're wrong, eventually they get it and be proceed to do things properly...
by now most dont bother arguing lol
by now most dont bother arguing lol
DeclanWhite
Senior Member
I lost a previous client when at mix revision number 8 of a song tracked live for a video I stopped being as nice and told them I wouldn't do another remix of the 15 minute long song unless there was something seriously wrong with it. We were at the point where the remixing was hurting the song and we were doing it to satiate their egos. Mix number 4-5 sounded the best. We finished that song and the work they'd began talking to me about following this song never materialized and they are now talking to another studio in my city.
It doesn't pay to be a cunt.
Being successful as a sound engineer is 20% talent, 30% fancy gear/studio, 50% people handling skills!
Whenever they're opposed to sampling, I tell them that I'll use samples from their kit. Most drummers actually have no clue what sampling/blending really is.
If they all have decent gear, I try to put it all on the record. After all, it is their sound. They spent hard earned money on gear and spent time tweaking it to create a sonic stamp that they would like to call their own. Luckily though, I've worked with mostly decent bands with decent gear, the bands with cheaper gear admit their equipment sucks and let me use VST's. I've never had to program drums because the drummer was so bad though.
If they all have decent gear, I try to put it all on the record. After all, it is their sound. They spent hard earned money on gear and spent time tweaking it to create a sonic stamp that they would like to call their own. Luckily though, I've worked with mostly decent bands with decent gear, the bands with cheaper gear admit their equipment sucks and let me use VST's. I've never had to program drums because the drummer was so bad though.
Musicians always say funny shit like this. Reverb's a good one. "I just want the raw sound of the drums, no reverb. vocals too. maybe a little bit on the lead guitar" yeah sure there buddy. Don't look while I put every track through the master reverb bus. As they say, reverb is best used when you can't actually hear it right? I usually get away clean with this one
'No pitch correction' 'SURE THING BOSS' 'wow I didn't know I could sing that well!'
The best one though was when the death metal band insisted on not recording to a click because they didn't want "that super-processed sound", they wanted it "raw". I had to take a deep breath and calmly explain to them that that "super-processed" sound takes a FUCKTON more effort every step of the way than simply having the band play to a metronome. That was mostly for my own dignity though. No click was had and the record turned out quite "raw" indeed
I've also determined that "raw" is the word musicians use when they want to justify to themselves being lazy about performance/tuning/etc. It's just counterproductive because it means the band assumes that 'super-perfect-sounding' is the default setting and that they have to do their part to sabotage MY job, lest the album come out 'too good'
People do come at me a lot with the word "cheat" as in "It's cheating to use X to fix a track" at which point I HOHOHO like Slipperman and explain that strictly speaking, anything beyond hanging a stereo pair of mics, recording the live sound of the band, and normalizing the raw tracks with zero other processing can be considered "cheating". They usually grumble but can't really refute that point
'No pitch correction' 'SURE THING BOSS' 'wow I didn't know I could sing that well!'
The best one though was when the death metal band insisted on not recording to a click because they didn't want "that super-processed sound", they wanted it "raw". I had to take a deep breath and calmly explain to them that that "super-processed" sound takes a FUCKTON more effort every step of the way than simply having the band play to a metronome. That was mostly for my own dignity though. No click was had and the record turned out quite "raw" indeed
I've also determined that "raw" is the word musicians use when they want to justify to themselves being lazy about performance/tuning/etc. It's just counterproductive because it means the band assumes that 'super-perfect-sounding' is the default setting and that they have to do their part to sabotage MY job, lest the album come out 'too good'
People do come at me a lot with the word "cheat" as in "It's cheating to use X to fix a track" at which point I HOHOHO like Slipperman and explain that strictly speaking, anything beyond hanging a stereo pair of mics, recording the live sound of the band, and normalizing the raw tracks with zero other processing can be considered "cheating". They usually grumble but can't really refute that point
ShipwreckSoundWorks
Member
I've had nothing but trouble explaining things to musicians. I suppose I don't understand why they are paying me to do my job to begin with. If they claim they know what's best then why don't they do it themselves you know?
I take their point of view into consideration. IE, if the drummer tells me no compressors, it most likely means he doesnt want his drum tracks squashed. So keep them I'd most likely keep them nice and kissed on the comp, to sit better in the mix and go from there. Like wise Ive had vocalists tell me dont put ANYTHING on his track, meaning no verb, delay, eq, ANYTHING. What he really meant is he wanted his vocals very dry, and to have bite, and to not get lost in the mix.
to me is like a guitarist that comes in with a line 6 spider stack and wants August Burns Red tones out of it. Except with those silly vocalists or drummers, I can secretly add whats needed to make everything sit nice.
to me is like a guitarist that comes in with a line 6 spider stack and wants August Burns Red tones out of it. Except with those silly vocalists or drummers, I can secretly add whats needed to make everything sit nice.
Trevoire520
Member
If the drummer tells you "no compressors" then he probably has no idea what the fuck a compressor actually does, or that EVERY cd he has ever listened to uses loads of it.
When bands tell you not to do things it's normally because they think it's cheating, think using it is saying that they're not good enough without it etc, it's an ego thing. They tend to know just enough about our side of the desk to know what somethings called, and maybe a little bit about what it does, and they think that tiny amount of knowledge is enough to tell you how to do your job.
Something like "make the vocals dry and upfront, don't wash them in reverb/delay" is fine, it's a style preference. But saying shit like "don't eq my drums, don't use compressors" is just totally fucking retarded if they want anything approaching a professional sounding product.
When bands tell you not to do things it's normally because they think it's cheating, think using it is saying that they're not good enough without it etc, it's an ego thing. They tend to know just enough about our side of the desk to know what somethings called, and maybe a little bit about what it does, and they think that tiny amount of knowledge is enough to tell you how to do your job.
Something like "make the vocals dry and upfront, don't wash them in reverb/delay" is fine, it's a style preference. But saying shit like "don't eq my drums, don't use compressors" is just totally fucking retarded if they want anything approaching a professional sounding product.
If I do a mix and the client comes back and asks me to remove the compression from the vocal and remove the 20dB down snare sample blend then I'll happily do it.
I added a slide guitar part to a song I MASTERED once and they didn't notice! On the other hand I've had a guitarist ask me if I'd comped a part because he didn't remember playing it through quite like that!
I'm currently finishing off an acoustic jazz (er, I mean Prog Necro) track that the trio wanted to be "raw" because they think their previous release was "overproduced"; it's probably got more editing and processing on it than just about anything I've ever worked on.
I added a slide guitar part to a song I MASTERED once and they didn't notice!
On the other hand I've had a guitarist ask me if I'd comped a part because he didn't remember playing it through quite like that!I'm currently finishing off an acoustic jazz (er, I mean Prog Necro) track that the trio wanted to be "raw" because they think their previous release was "overproduced"; it's probably got more editing and processing on it than just about anything I've ever worked on.
