Client makes requests-no samples, gates etc... Do you use them!

The best idea is to request reference songs. Chances are they don't know what processes are on stuff and if you can keep the conversation about destination rather than route everyone will be happier.
The thing I'll add is that sample free drums are hard and the possibility of them sounding good in a final is 99% determined in the tracking phase. Too much hat in the snare mic? Oh well. Kick drum clipping? Oh well. Phase all over the place? Oh well. Tom dynamics all over the place? Oh well.
 
LBTM said:
Agreed but maybe a band want a 90s kind of sound, so in that case would you use samples?
Click to expand...
'90s kind of sound' is a bit vague. Could mean 90s grunge, 90s death metal, 90s hip hop..

But it does appear that you're under the misconception that samples can only ever sound modern, which is bullshit, frankly.
 
Wow. Not a lot of respect for the people signing the checks.

I've been there too, and it can be really frustrating when someone comes to you with JUST enough knowledge to be dangerous - they've read lots of things or been told lots of things, but they don't have experience to back it up.

BUT some clients (more than you think) do have some idea what they're talking about. They may have taken classes, made their own demos, etc. but they need someone with a better facility/gear/etc. or they just don't want to engineer their own music because it's a huge pain in the ass. The really talented or knowledgeable guys rarely talk about how talented or knowledgeable they are, so be careful with your attitude. It's a people-business at the end of the day. I've been amazed at how much I've learned when I've shut my mouth and tried different things my clients have suggested.

Here's the thing: you simply need to communicate with your client. It's as simple as that. Ask to hear some recordings that they would like their recording to resemble: If they hand you hyper-produced record like "Riot" by Paramore or something with sampled/programmed drums like Periphery or whatnot, then explain to them (i.e. don't talk down to them) what goes into the process of making a record sound like that, and even take some time to show them yourself using a small piece of one of their songs (looks like egan just said the same thing).

However, if they hand you something like "Relationship of Command" by At The Drive-In or the first Slipknot record or something, then get off your high horse and give them what they're paying for. You simply can't make a record that sounds like those records if you're doing a ton of editing, sampling, tuning, etc. Just make sure to explain to them the trade-offs of keeping things natural. It's not going to sound perfect, but timeless records almost never do.
 
^ mostly what I think.
I think you got to understand with what kind of clients you work with, and talk to them in different ways. Understanding were the attitude is coming from is important imo.
Sometimes you just have to deal with ignorant idiots though..."what one doesn't know doesn't harm" may work in such cases, but so far everytime I went that way the whole gig was a huge PITA for me anway, not only because of the client wishes thingy. So if you can then I'd avoid such clients to start with, but who can do such a thing nowadays ^^

If they want a first slipknot cd sound (as cory said at the end of his post) but the kit is shit, they won't purchase new skins, and the drummer doesn't want to stop hitting the hihat harder than the rest of the kit then well...we're at the point egan mentioned.
 
I don't think anyone is blindsiding their clients and ignoring what they want - none of us would be making money if we did that.

Egan's point about keeping the focus on the end product is spot-on, as is Cory's about giving the client what they want in accordance to their reference.

What I think this thread is mostly about is when someone hands you something like a Faceless or Paramore album as a reference and then says "no samples, no editing, no reamping, no tuning, etc."

The proper analogy to the restaurant would be like ordering Chicken Parmesan and then telling the cook not to use onions, basil, salt, or eggs. :lol:
 
if6was9 said:
Now my question to you is if a band makes one of these requests, do you ignore it?
Click to expand...

Depends how good the band is .. and how good the engineer is at recording live.

If you can engineer a great sound .. why replace it?
 
Tell them not to used electronic tuners for guitar/bass and to tune up naturally with their own ears, because electronic tuners make things sound TOO ROBOTIC.



When people lay that on you, make sure they know their place in the creation of the project. They do their job, you do yours.
 
JeffTD said:
I don't think anyone is blindsiding their clients and ignoring what they want - none of us would be making money if we did that.

Egan's point about keeping the focus on the end product is spot-on, as is Cory's about giving the client what they want in accordance to their reference.

What I think this thread is mostly about is when someone hands you something like a Faceless or Paramore album as a reference and then says "no samples, no editing, no reamping, no tuning, etc."

The proper analogy to the restaurant would be like ordering Chicken Parmesan and then telling the cook not to use onions, basil, salt, or eggs. :lol:
Click to expand...

This
 
It depends really.
Why would any one not use a gate though?? FFS!

I'm all for trying to make things sound a bit more natural; but then that depends on the music, and what the client wants.
I'm currently getting up to mixing my bands new stuff which is post rock. No triggers on this, but that's because the drummer was ace, the kit was great, the room was fantastic and the gear used to record it was mind blowing. Oh and I'm a mint engineer.

I've never had a band specify to me not to use samples etc yet... Lucky me.
 
greyskull said:
It depends really.
Why would any one not use a gate though?? FFS!

I'm all for trying to make things sound a bit more natural; but then that depends on the music, and what the client wants.
I'm currently getting up to mixing my bands new stuff which is post rock. No triggers on this, but that's because the drummer was ace, the kit was great, the room was fantastic and the gear used to record it was mind blowing. Oh and I'm a mint engineer.

I've never had a band specify to me not to use samples etc yet... Lucky me.
Click to expand...

I prefer expanders to gates actually
 
wutzington said:
A. Make the client happy.

B. Make a great sounding record.

Sometimes A and B are mutually exclusive. That's when you have to decide whether you make a record that sounds like dick (to you) - or just shit all over your clients requests and do your thing while hoping for the best (not recommended).
Click to expand...

Haha, I totally had to do this a few months ago. Punk/alt band sounded great and I was very, very pleased with the tracks we got. They were only in town for two days so I stayed up late to get a ballpark mix on all 8 tracks.

When they showed up, I let them hear where the mix was and they hated it. They said it was 'too good' - so we spent the rest of the day making these great tracks sound like absolute shit.

It honestly sounded like they recorded straight to a busted cassette deck, and they loved it.
 
If you're going to put your name and brand on a work, for reputation reasons, advise the band that you are there to make their album sound as best as possible which may include gating, sampling, etc. I'm not saying you have to, but if you are not ready to stop using this tools and make it sound like shit, then that is bad for your business, you can ruin your reputation.
 
Just this week I had a client come in and request the "Bullet For My Valentine" type guitar tone and shows up with a Crate head. When I told him we werent using it he cried like a 2 year old and bitched and moaned that it was. "His sound", So i plugged him into a DI, and miced up his amp. The moment he left all tracks run through the 5150.... He will never know.

My other option is when they request certain things like, "No sample replacement" I tell them ok, then when they hear everything back and go, "Why dont my drums sound HUGE" I tell them cause we didnt sample replace them .... they immediately change their mind.

That being said, I rarely if every sample replace these days. I do some minor replacement / blending on toms if needed.

Lie, YOU are the producer that needs to make their music sound the way they want to hear it. Do your job and tell them to shut the fuck up.
 
for me the trick here is to make it SOUND LIKE you didn´t use x y z, but use it anyway for the advantages it comes with.

an example: a band requestet to not trigger the bassdrum, they wanted a dynamic vibe and feel to the bassdrum. that resulted of course in a bassdrum that wasnt consistent enough and got buried every 2 secs or so, so i took a sample just for the low-end and let the snap come from the mic signal: more consistent then mic but doesnt sound like sample: voilá, job done.
 
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