Controversial opinions on metal

[romanticism]

but simultaneously... isn't most music guitar-driven?

I'm sorry. I've only posted for the last few days when I actually have a point to make. But I simply HAVE to do this.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

 

[SomeGuyDude]

A working definition still seems to evade us. Strange, you know metal when you hear it but can you sum up the genre in a sentence? I sure can't.

Then again, can you really sum up any genre in a sentence?

Agreed here. You can put a fine point on subgenres but not the whole umbrella.

EDIT: There's probably a list of typical traits one could make and say that "metal" has a majority of them, which is why somehow it still feels like Manilla Road, Sunn O))), Immolation, and Striborg are all "metal". They sound wildly different, but it's impossible to ignore that there's a unifying thread amongst them.

 

[matt schrauben]

Speaking of Striborg, do they have anything that's good? Because I sure haven't heard it. I got their Nefaria/A Tragic Journey Towards the Light album and I think it's fucking terrible and mostly unlistenable.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Speaking of Striborg, do they have anything that's good? Because I sure haven't heard it. I got their Nefaria/A Tragic Journey Towards the Light album and I think it's fucking terrible and mostly unlistenable.

Ehhhhhh. I think Striborg is an interesting project, the guy who does it seems cool as shit, and frankly he's a great musician, but his problem is twofold. One is that the production is fucking terrible. Not in that cool necro fashion, more like "poorly done". Two is that he comes up with a lot of cool shit and then drags it out too far.

That said, The Foreboding Silence isn't bad. It kinda bugs me because when I listen to a lot of Striborg I find myself going "ugh, this should be better than it is." Like all the pieces are there, it just doesn't quite come together right.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

When one hears a relaxed-sounding metal band, the most common knee-jerk reaction is to differentiate it from the herd by pointing to a mixture or blending with, or influence from, another genre of music.

Earth takes liner notes from drone music.

Isis is a smorgasbord of 90's atmospheric rock derivatives and sludge.

Opeth is heavily influenced by Classic Prog.

Summoning is mostly low-brow fantasy soundtracks.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Most music is certainly not guitar driven.

OOPS. On the guitar-driven. But it definitely exceeds the lines of metal, that has to be said.

Agreed here. You can put a fine point on subgenres but not the whole umbrella.

EDIT: There's probably a list of typical traits one could make and say that "metal" has a majority of them, which is why somehow it still feels like Manilla Road, Sunn O))), Immolation, and Striborg are all "metal". They sound wildly different, but it's impossible to ignore that there's a unifying thread amongst them.

I think a good definition would include particular juxtaposition of guitar, bass and drums. I'll agree metal seems to embrace certain themes more often than not, but I do not think that should be part of the definition considering the vast array of themes in all of music, as Eligos suggests.

I had a thread going awhile ago on whether genre is defined by musical technicalities or lyrical stylings, and I subscribe to the former. Perfect example is any metal cover of a non-metal song. It still sounds metal.

I just don't know enough about instruments and/or playing music to know what words would apply to the behavior of the tools. My best guess would be... certain instruments at odds with one another in a way other genres avoid.

 

[noisefiend]

It's flowery wallpaper metal.

I bet you wouldn't say the same thing about Hate Forest, now would you?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I try to avoid listening to bands with the words 'hate' or 'forest' in their name, let alone both. Based on some quick listening (about half of The Immortal Ones and Abyssic Wanderer before becoming entirely bored), I wouldn't call them flowery, but I'd rather listen to Drudkh.

 

[Nephilim96]

What is this, a band HB thinks is worse than Drudkh???? How can this be?

 

[Onder]

Oh look HamburgerBoy dislikes a black metal band for some reason. Who cares anymore.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I'll check out the Nietscheism compilation on Shittify.

 

[Onder]

Is the whole first fucking 5:38 track just Orff's Carmina Burana?? Goddamn. This intros thing has gotten too far.

EDIT: I would listen to some Orff if I wanted to ffs.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I dunno if it's controversial, but I readily admit that I will love the fuck out of albums that nail a sound and will rate them over bands that try to be "original" but don't sound good. I rank end product over intentions much of the time.

Was listening to Seven Nautical Miles' "Every Ocean Reversed" which is about as paint-by-numbers sludge/post as it gets but realized that I think it's a great album and will happily spin it over a band that's trying to "push boundaries".

 

[noisefiend]

I knew I'd encounter someone on here after my years long absence from here who hated black metal. I remember back then you guys bagged on me for loving grindcore more than actual metal. things have a changed a bit since then.

 

[noisefiend]

In fact I remember him.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

The first word that comes to mind in regards to metal would be extremity. It would be hard to put a huge umbrella over metal though because it encompasses way too many things. To me, it's like asking "what's America mostly made up of?" Sure there are things that can generally be true, but it never really encompasses everyone and everything and it is constantly changing.

Controversial opinion: (or maybe not?) I really hate when bands try to send Christian messages using extreme metal. If feels like a scam and to me their music has a "trying too hard" vibe. Is there even a good christian extreme metal band out there?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Controversial opinion: (or maybe not?) I really hate when bands try to send Christian messages using extreme metal. If feels like a scam and to me their music has a "trying too hard" vibe. Is there even a good christian extreme metal band out there?

Christian metal sucks because it's total cognitive dissonance between sound and message. You can't have really distorted instrumentation and screamed vocals when the message is all peace and love. It's like bouncy banjo music trying to be dramatic and sinister.

Ignoring the try-hard sadness of people thinking they're going to make religion "cool" by wrapping it up in metal, I just can't take any music serious when the message and the sound are at such odds with each other, regardless of what the two elements are.

 

[matt schrauben]

Really? I don't think it matters that much at all, as long as it sounds great. Lyrical content is the biggest non-factor when it comes to what I listen to.

Plus, chances are, someone could show you an extreme metal band that is Christian that you've never heard of and if you can't understand the lyrics, which is often, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

I mean I think this is pretty sweet:

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I knew I'd encounter someone on here after my years long absence from here who hated black metal. I remember back then you guys bagged on me for loving grindcore more than actual metal. things have a changed a bit since then.

I like non-prefixed black metal just fine.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Believer is awesome Christian thrash, btw. There's plenty of less "extreme" (assuming you define extreme as heavier thrash/death/black metal and not anything that pushes people's comfort zones) Christian metal that is good/decent, though. Also, most Christian metal isn't "peace and love" afaik.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Well first of all, if it's still angry and misanthropic that's some weird-ass Christian music, IMO, and the kinda thing I'd endorse even less.

Secondly, lyrics aren't a non-factor. Everyone says that, but if that were the case why is Arghoslent controversial? Are you telling me you'd be totally cool with listening to a band made up of totally hateful white supremacists if the music was rockin'? Of course not. Message matters, and everyone is full of shit if they say otherwise. The whole reason metal tickles our ear-clits right is that it's subversive, abrasive, frequently angry and desolate. We throw the horns and mosh, grunt into our fists or imagine howling along with the words.

We look at album covers and love them because they impart a feeling about the music as a whole. Cannibal Corpse covers give us that grisly horror movie with a sense of humor aesthetic, whereas old Burzum is isolated and cold. Image is PART of metal, and it is completely dishonest to act like it's literally just the scratch of distorted guitars or the rhythmic thump of kick drums that is the reason we enjoy it.

Christian metal is intellectually dishonest except in extraordinarily rare instances like The Chariot where their Christianity shaped their ideals but the music itself isn't about spreading the gospel. And even THAT is sort of different because The Chariot was mathcore and not the same music that spawned the likes of motherfucking Slayer.

I cant stand Christian metal for the same reason I would roll my eyes at someone who tried to make Satanic music that sounded like Amy Grant. It's just stupid.