Controversial opinions on metal

[crimsonfloyd]

Would you put it over their earlier material?

1. SWoD (arguably the best metal album ever).
2. Painkiller
3. Sin After Sin (would be #2 if it weren't for Last Rose of Summer)
4. Stained Class
5. Defenders of Faith

British Steel is underrated.

It's a solid album with some great cuts, but Living After Midnight sucks and You Don't Have to Be Old to Be Wise is mediocre.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

The Priest album i enjoy the most would probably have to be Screaming for Vengeance. I need to listen to more of their 80's material.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

There's definitely a band with death metal instruments and exclusively clean vocals. The way the labeling system works it would either be labeled "death/thrash" or "progressive death metal"

This is simply false. The biggest difference between Cannibal Corpse and Dragon Force is the vocals, and Dragon Force is certainly not labeled as "_____death metal."

 

[SentinelSlain]

None of the classic traditional metal bands have albums as perfect as certain extreme metal albums. For example, no single Priest album is as solid (filler free) as Gothic by Paradise Lost.

 

[Krow]

Shit like gothic metal tends to not have stand out tracks, is the simple answer to that. Death metal very rarely does too. (Extreme metal in general)

 

[crimsonfloyd]

None of the classic traditional metal bands have albums as perfect as certain extreme metal albums. For example, no single Priest album is as solid (filler free) as Gothic by Paradise Lost.

There is no filler on SWOD or Painkiller, only inadequacies in the existence of those who listen to them.

 

[The Ozzman]

Painfiller amirite?

 

[waif]

This is simply false. The biggest difference between Cannibal Corpse and Dragon Force is the vocals, and Dragon Force is certainly not labeled as "_____death metal."

That's the most immediately obvious difference, but if Dragonforce redid all their shit with Corpsegrinder on the mic no one would call it death metal.

Shit like gothic metal tends to not have stand out tracks, is the simple answer to that. Death metal very rarely does too. (Extreme metal in general)

This is a pretty good explanation. Extreme metal is generally more about evoking a mood or atmosphere than chiseling choruses into your brain. The result is more album oriented. There aren't too many death metal anthems that everyone knows the way they know classic Priest or Maiden tracks (Off the top of my head...Hammer Smashed Face? Phobophile? Liege of Inveracity?).

 

[Dak]

Painfiller. I like it.

 

[waif]

Say what you will about that album but Leather Rebel is my favorite Priest song.

 

[Nephilim96]

It's a solid album with some great cuts, but Living After Midnight sucks

Very true.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't think a lack of hooks is quite the way to put it, because extreme metal is inherently less catchy and accessible than traditional metal, but it's more an issue of extreme metal bands being hyper-focused on a niche sound than any willful intent of creating a album vs collection of songs. For example, everyone can acknowledge that Nespithe is a classic and very original album, and I think many would agree that there are a handful of elements that most/all songs on the album share in terms of writing. Despite that, I don't think there's quite as conscious an effort in writing one cohesive album in the sense that songs X and Y serve purpose Z and Q on the album. That is in contrast to the classics of heavy metal, where the placement of the epic towards the end or that one slow and heavy song after the speed metal track is very important for creating a cohesive album flow. Death metal, for the most part, doesn't tell a story (literally or figuratively) like trad.

Say what you will about that album but Leather Rebel is my favorite Priest song.

That was my first favorite on the album, and still one of my favorites overall.

 

[KafkaX]

Im definitely not a Priest fan boy, but I like my share. My opinion on the matter is the only album I feel thats over-rated from Priest is Stained Class.

Ive tried, multiple times Ive tried and I just dont see whats so unfuckingbelievable about it and why its rated so high.

Painkiller? Yeah, I get it. Sad Wings of Desiny? Yeah, totally. Screaming for Vengence? Fuck yeah.

But I just dont see the charm about Stained Class. At all.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

imo, Stained Class was the "most metal" album at its time. Full of aggressive speed-y songs, marching proto-power metal tracks, stripped away a lot of the bluesier elements and has this raw, dry edge to it while still featuring a lot of ideas and mature songwriting. I can understand preferring Sad Wings to it (if comparing only peaks I could too), but they're both 70s metal perfection.

 

[divine_torture]

I don't think a lack of hooks is quite the way to put it, because extreme metal is inherently less catchy and accessible than traditional metal, but it's more an issue of extreme metal bands being hyper-focused on a niche sound than any willful intent of creating a album vs collection of songs. For example, everyone can acknowledge that Nespithe is a classic and very original album, and I think many would agree that there are a handful of elements that most/all songs on the album share in terms of writing. Despite that, I don't think there's quite as conscious an effort in writing one cohesive album in the sense that songs X and Y serve purpose Z and Q on the album. That is in contrast to the classics of heavy metal, where the placement of the epic towards the end or that one slow and heavy song after the speed metal track is very important for creating a cohesive album flow. Death metal, for the most part, doesn't tell a story (literally or figuratively) like trad.



That was my first favorite on the album, and still one of my favorites overall.

What? Dead Congregation, Morbid Angel, Hypocrisy, At The Gates, Pestilence, Death, Suffocation, Immolation, Origin, fucking a lot of others disprove that idea. They all have a knack for song placement and album flow. Often with semi-coneptual lyrics (I.e. Hypocrisy sticking to alien shit and da devil or Origin and fucking space sex or whatever cuz who pays attention to their lyrics anyway). My point is a large chunk of quality death metal is more thought out in this regard than you must be able to realize.

Death metal anthems? Hammer Smashed Face for sure. Roswell 47, Spheres of Madness, Dead By Dawn, and everyone sings along with God of Emptiness when the video is played haha. Baby Killer, maybe. I Don't Care, Pull The Plug, The Exorcist, You'll Never See..., Override of the Overture or Sickening Art, Corporal Jigsaw Quandry.

Maybe they aren't anthemy, but all of them have their own catchy hook in some way. Every one. Tell me death metal doesn't have fucking hooks. Hell, a lot have generic rock structures (Verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge or solo etc)

 

[KafkaX]

I guess Im a fucking faggot then.

I prefer to listen to other shit going on at the time. That album just doesnt hit me. I dont get it. They got me with SWoD, but not SC.

Give me some old Sabbath, Zepplin, Rush or even KISS. (Yes, I said KISS fuck the haters). And before I start a shit storm, Im not saying Kiss is better than Priest so dont even fucking start.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

What? Dead Congregation, Morbid Angel, Hypocrisy, At The Gates, Pestilence, Death, Suffocation, Immolation, Origin, fucking a lot of others disprove that idea. They all have a knack for song placement and album flow. Often with semi-coneptual lyrics (I.e. Hypocrisy sticking to alien shit and da devil or Origin and fucking space sex or whatever cuz who pays attention to their lyrics anyway). My point is a large chunk of quality death metal is more thought out in this regard than you must be able to realize.

Death metal anthems? Hammer Smashed Face for sure. Roswell 47, Spheres of Madness, Dead By Dawn, and everyone sings along with God of Emptiness when the video is played haha. Baby Killer, maybe. I Don't Care, Pull The Plug, The Exorcist, You'll Never See..., Override of the Overture or Sickening Art, Corporal Jigsaw Quandry.

Maybe they aren't anthemy, but all of them have their own catchy hook in some way. Every one. Tell me death metal doesn't have fucking hooks. Hell, a lot have generic rock structures (Verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge or solo etc)

I'm not saying death metal doesn't say hooks (in fact I wasn't really even talking about them in my first post at all) I'm saying they're not as important relative to trad, and more importantly that variance in songwriting isn't as important.

I agree with some of your examples, disagree with others. I love Consuming Impulse as much as anyone, and I agree that the songs are easily discernible from one another, but I don't hear it as an album where order is absolutely critical. It's a collection of bitching 3-4 minute riff-fests, one after the next. Same goes with most Death. With early At the Gates I can get more on board, although even there the second album has a pretty drastic shift into a more straight-forward headbangable blur by its second half. I can also agree with Incantation where you can have some incredibly brutal and fast material contrasted with the giant doom-influenced epics, and everything in between.

The lyrical themes mentioned in Hypocrisy and Origin are more a case of the homogeneity I was talking about. "Semi-conceptual" because they share a similar basis, but afaik it's just aliens and more aliens, or whatever the theme happens to be. I don't know of a Hypocrisy album where I think "Oh yeah, that moody alien lull before the big alien peak really brings it all together", although admittedly I don't like Hypocrisy so maybe I haven't been giving them a fair shot?

 

[SoundMaster]

Shit like gothic metal tends to not have stand out tracks, is the simple answer to that. Death metal very rarely does too. (Extreme metal in general)

this….100%.

 

[SoundMaster]

the first ten seconds of "Leather Rebel" totally dominate us. But then the rest of the song unfolds…and I reach for their 70s output.

 

[SoundMaster]

Agalloch have them because they started as a black metal band and are still heavily rooted in black metal. Same for enslaved. I'd sooner have enslaved ditch some of the dodgy cleans than the harsh stuff which works just fine.

And they make perfect sense in Enslaved's current output. Two of the most recent EPs are black metal. And even if you think of the albums as purely prog, prog has always been all about outlandish and weird vocals. It's the modern proggy metal shit with soft in key totally boring and irritating, wouldnt be out of place in soft rock or pop, vocals that need to fuck off.

To my ears, it's Grutle's screams which are (now) annoying. They perfectly fit their 90s output, but stand out like a sore thumb since. They feel forced these days. It's asif they feel they "have to' use them simply because they're from Norway and were part of the 90s scene.