Atomic Tide
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Could not agree more about Machine Head, not a weak track on there! If this album contained Child In Time and Bloodsucker, it just might be my fave album of all time.
Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
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Could not agree more about Machine Head, not a weak track on there! If this album contained Child In Time and Bloodsucker, it just might be my fave album of all time.
Zeppelin doesn't even touch heavy metal. I even struggle to call some of their albums hard rock.
III is more like folk rock/blues, 2 heavier tracks don't mean the whole album is "hard". Same goes for Houses Of The Holy and In Through The Out Door.
Deep Purple is way heavier and wilder, and it's not only about their sound, they just capture the essence and mentality of HM, defo better than LZ.
III is more like folk rock/blues, 2 heavier tracks don't mean the whole album is "hard". Same goes for Houses Of The Holy and In Through The Out Door.
Deep Purple is way heavier and wilder, and it's not only about their sound, they just capture the essence and mentality of HM, defo better than LZ.
Baroque
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WTF? Aren't you a teacher? So if they were the first "pure" heavy metal band that means that they were the "sole creators/founders" of the genre? SO HM was "created" by a single band?x2
Rob Halford argues:
"Black Sabbath absolutely invented heavy metal. I've read a lot of essays and such like about tracing it all back further and further. It's as though these writers want to claim the source, a bit like Dr. Livingstone and the source of the Nile. But as a purist metal musician, I can tell you it's Black Sabbath."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_heavy_metal
I agree with him. It's not exactly a laughable opinion. Deep Purple sounds nothing like Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath. Ever.
no country for old wainds
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there's plenty of metal that sounds even less like 'black sabbath' than deep purple do, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Baroque
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Lyrics matter in defining heavy metal, they're just one component, but still.
"Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me!
Is it the end, my friend?
Satan's coming 'round the bend"
vs.
"Nobody gonna take my car
I'm gonna race it to the ground
Nobody gonna beat my car
It's gonna break the speed of sound
Oooh it's a killing machine
It's got everything
Like a driving power, big fat tires and everything"
One is metal, one is not.
"Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me!
Is it the end, my friend?
Satan's coming 'round the bend"
vs.
"Nobody gonna take my car
I'm gonna race it to the ground
Nobody gonna beat my car
It's gonna break the speed of sound
Oooh it's a killing machine
It's got everything
Like a driving power, big fat tires and everything"
One is metal, one is not.
Baroque
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no country for old wainds
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i was pointing out your argument is fallacious. fyi, this argument (that halford saying it's true makes it true) is also fallacious.
i also think it's dumb to say that a genre can't have a single founder though. AND i would argue there are bands who preceded both of these who flirted with what we now consider to be metal, but sabbath were obviously the ones who took it way, way further than anybody else in that period. they're by far the most important band of metal's formative years, who really cares if they claim *sole* credit?
i also think it's dumb to say that a genre can't have a single founder though. AND i would argue there are bands who preceded both of these who flirted with what we now consider to be metal, but sabbath were obviously the ones who took it way, way further than anybody else in that period. they're by far the most important band of metal's formative years, who really cares if they claim *sole* credit?
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Hold on, so we're linking wiki now? Here, let me trump your trad metal wiki link with this ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music
this.
Why the fuck would a band that was helping shape heavy metal at the exact same fucking time as black sabbath sound exactly like black sabbath?
For anyone to say that they weren't one of the first heavy metal bands of all time just shows how fucking clueless they are.
No, they don't.
Also you keep ripping on Highway Star, that's a cemented classic heavy metal track and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the lyrics. You might be the only person on this planet that questions its "metalness".
I wasn't talking about any other genre of musics or their founders bro. We're talking heavy metal/hard rock here right? Any other genres we were discussing that i should know about?
How do you guys misunderstand so many of my posts? If i say Witchaven is the best black/thrash band, would you guys think i was saying they're the best black metal or thrash metal band?
TechnicalBarbarity
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Baroque
Active Member
It may be, but he is a greater expert on heavy metal of the 70's than any of us, making his argument stronger than any of ours.
no country for old wainds
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the problem is at least 70% with you imo
idk if i misunderstood or not, but all i'm saying is there are plenty of huge, sprawling movements in the arts that can be traced back to one founding artist, so it's not necessarily absurd to claim the same thing about HM.
anyways, it's obvious that the influence purple had on metal is absolutely DWARFED by that of sabbath, but denying they played any part at all is kinda silly. there is a happy medium here.
Draehl
Lurker
Ride the Lightning is the worst of the first 4 Metallica albums. Creeping Death & Call of Kthulu are both amazing songs, but the rest are vastly overrated. It feels like a transitional album between different styles of KEA and MoP. The vocals particularly feel at odds with the instrumentation. It just feels throws together and not a complete effort.
Baroque
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I just don't understand how you can say they were one of the most influential early heavy metal bands. They're like 90% rock and maybe 10% metal. Black Sabbath was far more genre defining, original etc. I think they deserve sole credit for taking it from 10% to 100%.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Not questioning this one bit.
Oh it is, especially when the facts say otherwise.
Once again, i agree with everything here. And i would say they played a HUGE part in shaping metal.
no country for old wainds
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disagree about rtl. no less consistent or distinctive than any of their albums imo (they're all a bit inconsistent)
no country for old wainds
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sabbath were farrrrrr from 100% metal themselves, plenty of their stuff in the ozzy era clearly falls on the blues, prog or hard rock side of things. a much higher percentage is metal compared to purple though, for sure.
Baroque
Active Member
I'm fine with this statement. Maybe they played a Much smaller part than Sabbath. I mean, I don't hear very many heavy metal bands that were like "we have to copy Deep Purple!" whereas Sabbath spawned whole genres.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Yea, im just not going to push this any further. You truly are clueless brother.
RtL is Metallicas best album.
Baroque
Active Member
I don't see how Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath is anything less than 100% heavy metal. I know other tracks had blues/rock influences. But Black Sabbath the song is as pure as it gets. The first of its kind.
Baroque
Active Member
I'd go AJfA > MoP > RtL > KEA but it's pretty close to a toss up. Each of those has a few excellent songs.
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