Controversial opinions on metal

[TechnicalBarbarity]

That's funny, even though i think their first two are their strongest, they are also the only two albums out of the four that i can see some people labeling as bland, generic etc. But to call one of the earliest technical death metal albums bland is beyond me. Also it's where they first started incorporating jazz into their music thanks to Tony Choy and Mameli. Plenty of unorthodox cords scattered all throughout that album, which is something that could have been said for how many other death metal bands in 1991? Yeah, bland is not a word that can be used to describe that album.

 

[CiG]

To be fair, he's on their only two good albums.

100% agree, don't care about Testimony of the Ancients, the classic Floridian-style Death Metal isn't really my thing.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

So hold on let me get this straight ... you dig Consuming Impulse, but "classic" Floridian style death metal isn't your thing? Lol wat?

 

[CiG]

Yeah.

 

[CiG]

Maybe that was the wrong thing to say, what I meant was the early 90's American style Death Metal with emphasis on clearer production values and technical playing isn't my thing.

Consuming Impulse is raw and primitive as fuck, that's my kinda shit.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I know I've said it before, but Ne Obliviscaris popped up on my shuffle again and they are the number one example of a band I'd fuckin love if not for the clean vocals. Easily number one. I stomach them for the sake of the instrumental craftsmanship, but grimace a little bit every time. Sounds like a teenager fresh out of puberty.

 

[The Ozzman]

Citadel is an absolutely ridiculous record. The atmosphere is mesmerizing on that album. It's addicting.

I'd take that style of clean over Periphery's any day of the week though...or Cattle Decapitation

 

[CiG]

I can't stand 'em haha.

 

[Krow]

I'm not sure anyone expected you to like progressive metal tbh, but feel free to go ahead and say you like the safe choices like Awaken the Guardian.

 

[CiG]

We've already discussed Progressive Metal I think, yeah I love Fates Warning, safety isn't really a factor though I just like what sounds good to me. [shrug]

 

[CiG]

Oh and by that comment I meant the clean vocals.

 

[The Butt]

Citadel is an absolutely ridiculous record. The atmosphere is mesmerizing on that album. It's addicting.

I'd take that style of clean over Periphery's any day of the week though...or Cattle Decapitation

Periphery is gay.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That's funny, even though i think their first two are their strongest, they are also the only two albums out of the four that i can see some people labeling as bland, generic etc. But to call one of the earliest technical death metal albums bland is beyond me. Also it's where they first started incorporating jazz into their music thanks to Tony Choy and Mameli. Plenty of unorthodox cords scattered all throughout that album, which is something that could have been said for how many other death metal bands in 1991? Yeah, bland is not a word that can be used to describe that album.

Maybe there are some weird chords in there, I don't really care, I just know that the rhythms are bland and arranged in ways less interesting than the debut. It's a good example to show how far tech-death was behind tech-thrash in 1991.

 

[The Ozzman]

I bought that album from someone and it didn't really hit me or anything when I first listened. I'll try again today and see if it's different.

We've already discussed Progressive Metal I think, yeah I love Fates Warning, safety isn't really a factor though I just like what sounds good to me. [shrug]

Which happens to be what people would deem the 'safe choice' in most instances. Not that it's good or bad or whatever, but that's what I've noticed.

 

[Omni]

The John Arch era Fates Warning is a lot closer to traditional metal than later progressive metal, unless bands like Mercyful Fate are also progressive metal bands. Awaken the Guardian is the closest to what I would feel comfortable using that genre title and it's still leagues from what most people classify as progressive metal. There are other bands that i think also tread this line without falling into the genre in a clear way.

I don't like anything that they released after that album even though I don't necessarily think that they're bad albums.

 

[EternalMetal]

The John Arch era Fates Warning is a lot closer to traditional metal than later progressive metal, unless bands like Mercyful Fate are also progressive metal bands. Awaken the Guardian is the closest to what I would feel comfortable using that genre title and it's still leagues from what most people classify as progressive metal. There are other bands that i think also tread this line without falling into the genre in a clear way.

Calling Mercyful Fate progressive metal is like calling Slayer death metal. While not being completely wrong, there are definitely more suitable labels for their musical styles. Even though I find Melissa to be quite proggy at times, it isnt exactly progressive metal.

Ive always considered early Fates Warning to be progressive metal, though it definitely does have heavy metal leanings. Id agree that this is probably a good point at which to mark the line.

I don't like anything that they released after that album even though I don't necessarily think that they're bad albums.

Same, though their best is definitely The Spectre Within.

As for Ne Obliviscaris, after the initial excitement of their demo wore off, I couldnt really get into them that much. Maybe Citadel is better?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Calling Mercyful Fate progressive metal is like calling Slayer death metal. While not being completely wrong

Calling Slayer death metal is 100% completely wrong.

I've always considered The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian to be more along the lines of traditional or power metal.

 

[EternalMetal]

Calling Slayer death metal is 100% completely wrong.

Would you call Mercyful Fate prog then? Slayer is a direct influence in a lot of early death metal bands, and had some similar lyrical content to what would later be called 'death metal'. How about Kreator? Would you then understand the analogy I was making?

I've always considered The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian to be more along the lines of traditional or power metal.

Too many prog influences, plus an actual influence on prog metal in general makes me feel otherwise. They are certainly on the cusp of being classified either way though, if you werent considering the time period and influence whatsoever. Is first wave black metal not really black metal to you?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Would you call Mercyful Fate prog then?

No. Haven't listened to any of their 90's stuff though.

Slayer is a direct influence in a lot of early death metal bands, and had some similar lyrical content to what would later be called 'death metal'. How about Kreator? Would you then understand the analogy I was making?

Yes, i get what you;re saying .... they were very influential, one of the most influential metal bands of all time if i may say so myself. No one is really going to argue against that. But that in now way means that they played death metal or could be considered a dm band. So if they influenced death metal that means they played death metal? You know there are some people that consider some of their earlier work to be black metal too, lol. And the lyrical them thing dosnt really make sense since thrash used(and still does) lyrics like that before it even gave birth to death metal. ,

How about Kreator? Would you then understand the analogy I was making?

None of Slayers albums could fall under the title of death/thrash. Pleasure to Kill certainly would. One of the earliest examples of that sound.

 

[Omni]

Slayer isn't a death metal band, but they clearly shaped the genre in a significant way.

I'm not going to say that early Fates Warning, especially Awaken the Guardian, isn't progressive metal, because it could be argued that it is, although it clearly has a lot in common with traditional metal and isn't too similar to what the progressive metal genre became only a few years later. I can fully understand someone generally not enjoying progressive metal while still enjoying the first three Fates Warning albums.