Controversial opinions on metal

[RedStorm]

ok




The arguments that ensue on here are almost always fucking stupid, I'm never surprised. Hell all it takes is me to preform one of my "signature drive-by non-sequitur posts"

 

[CiG]

ok

I'm your worst nightmare.

 

[J.]

darkspace is boring garbage

Thumbs up

 

[RedStorm]

Darkspace is fucking fantastic you fools.

 

[The Butt]

@Omni
Droning sounds singular sustained notes do have a discernible melody: the single note that they are sustaining. That's why I usually prefer vocals which are not just sung at a single pitch but which alter in pitch to create a variety of diverse melodies.

Again, I'm not saying that harsh vocals are literally percussion in a technical sense, I'm saying that they often serve a percussive role in the band and therefore are related to the sound of percussion. Most, if not all, non-melodic instruments are considered within the percussion family.

@CASSETTEISGOD
Again, the reason I feel that clean vocals are more diverse than harsh vocals, is because harsh vocals are very limited to the degree of how much melody they can deliver. While it is true that they can alter in pitch from lows to highs, their overly distorted nature drowns out the melodic pitch of the note they're delivering, making each lyric sound essentially the same.

It is of course, a subjective opinion whether someone prefers harsh or clean vocals in metal. What I'm doing is trying to explain rationally and reasonably why I feel clean vocals sound better than harsh vocals, not to objectively prove that they do, since that would be undoable.

Gay opinion. People who like extreme metal but not the harsh vocals have tiny Tic Tac balls.

Also as wainds said, the contradiction in your statements is palpable; you can't say with a straight face that you want diversity, Mr. "I want all vocals to be a certain way."

 

[MetalAges]

Ok so, I have cleaned this thread as much as I am going to. Make no reference to what was here, as it will only lead to trouble. Check your private messages as you may get a message from me. Now, keep on topic, this is not a god damned percussion thread for the love of all things metal...

 

[RedStorm]

Can we make one?

 

[Omni]

Yeah, you make the topic.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

Gay opinion. People who like extreme metal but not the harsh vocals have tiny Tic Tac balls.

Also as wainds said, the contradiction in your statements is palpable; you can't say with a straight face that you want diversity, Mr. "I want all vocals to be a certain way."

Yep, that must be what it is. Of course that's the most reasonable explanation behind it. And Rob Halford's vocals on the Painkiller album were "gay" as well. He should have grunted them out to make them sound more "masculine". Sir, you clearly don't have a grasp on what metal is all about if you think that growling and grunting is somehow essential to accompany extreme metal music.

You apparently completely missed the point behind my ironic comment. I never said I wanted diversity in metal; that was originally said by EternalMetal. I was pointing out that if he wants variety in metal, he ought to be for clean vocals in extreme metal, since it isn't something that's being done, and there are hundreds of extreme metal bands that sound like clones of each other.

 

[Baroque]

Sir, you clearly don't have a grasp on what metal is all about if you think that growling and grunting is somehow essential to accompany extreme metal music.

he ought to be for clean vocals in extreme metal, since it isn't something that's being done.

Contradicted yourself there. You admitted that clean vocals aren't being done in extreme metal, which contradicts your claim that harsh vocals aren't essential for extreme metal.

It's kind of part of the definition of extreme metal. Metal that is harsher and more underground than mainstream metal. Probably the majority of the time that includes harsh vocals. I've seen some people even define extreme metal as pretty much any metal with harsh vocals. They even use the term extreme vocals for extreme metal vocals.

Clean vocals do have their place in extreme metal but I think they're seriously in the minority. They're used as a temporary contrast to the harsh vocals usually.

Maybe you just don't like extreme metal, maybe you just like trad and thrash or something. There's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like extreme metal then don't listen to it and stop complaining about it imo.

 

[Phylactery]

Opinion:

I prefer the more unique sounds of Swedish DM albums like The Red in the Sky Is Ours, Beyond Sanctorum and The Nocturnal Silence to the more "standard" sounds of the best albums by Dismember, Entombed, Grave, Carnage etc.

 

[Slayed Necros]

I generally agree, although Like An Everflowing Stream isn't far behind. I'd also put Merciless, Gorement, Liers in Wait, and early Runemagick up there.

 

[The Butt]

Yep, that must be what it is. Of course that's the most reasonable explanation behind it. And Rob Halford's vocals on the Painkiller album were "gay" as well. He should have grunted them out to make them sound more "masculine". Sir, you clearly don't have a grasp on what metal is all about if you think that growling and grunting is somehow essential to accompany extreme metal music.

Judas Priest is not extreme metal, so that's a bullshit point.
Also I didn't say clean vocals were gay. I said expecting clean vocals in extreme metal, a genre built upon a foundation of distorted, ugly, savage-sounding instrumentation and harsh vocals, is gay. Nice strawman. Learn to actually debate or fuck off.

And harsh vocals ARE essential for extreme metal. They're part of the foundation death and black metal were fucking built upon in the first place, in a time when the point was to make the, as you put it pages ago, "ugliest, gnarliest sounds possible". You may not like this fact, but it IS fact. From Venom all the way to Possessed and Morbid Angel, this was the goal for extreme metal from the start.

As a result you have demonstrated that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the history of extreme metal and tbh I (and I imagine others here as well) cringe reading your posts. You really don't know jack shit.

You apparently completely missed the point behind my ironic comment. I never said I wanted diversity in metal; that was originally said by EternalMetal. I was pointing out that if he wants variety in metal, he ought to be for clean vocals in extreme metal, since it isn't something that's being done, and there are hundreds of extreme metal bands that sound like clones of each other.

Hundreds out of tens of thousands?

And there are hundreds of stoner doom bands that sound like clones of each other. Hundreds of power metal bands that sound like clones. Hundreds of Metallica clones.

This is not a trait exclusive to extreme metal, and not a trait even remotely caused by harsh vocals. I suggest you simply stop having musical ADD and accept the genres for what they are. If you can't, may I suggest that extreme metal simply is not for you?

You need to stop implying extreme metal should change to fit your narrow definition of what music should be like. You have very toxic viewpoints about art and quite frankly it disgusts and repulses me.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

Judas Priest is not extreme metal, so that's a bullshit point.
Also I didn't say clean vocals were gay. I said expecting clean vocals in extreme metal, a genre built upon a foundation of distorted, ugly, savage-sounding instrumentation and harsh vocals, is gay. Nice strawman. Learn to actually debate or fuck off.

And harsh vocals ARE essential for extreme metal. They're part of the foundation death and black metal were fucking built upon in the first place, in a time when the point was to make the, as you put it pages ago, "ugliest, gnarliest sounds possible". You may not like this fact, but it IS fact. From Venom all the way to Possessed and Morbid Angel, this was the goal for extreme metal from the start.

As a result you have demonstrated that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the history of extreme metal and tbh I (and I imagine others here as well) cringe reading your posts. You really don't know jack shit.

"Extreme" metal has its origins as early as the late 70's, according to wikipedia. Harsh vocals did not begin to exist until the mid 80's. Therefore your point is completely misinformed and off base. It appears that you, not me, needs to do a little more research about the roots of metal. The reason you're getting mad and upset is because you're being confronted with facts that are uncomfortable for you to accept.

Your argument boils down to accusing me of being "gay", yet I'm the one who supposedly needs to learn how to debate better? LMAO!!! Grow up pal.

You need to stop implying extreme metal should change to fit your narrow definition of what music should be like. You have very toxic viewpoints about art and quite frankly it disgusts and repulses me.

I assure you, the feeling is more than mutual.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I generally agree, although Like An Everflowing Stream isn't far behind. I'd also put Merciless, Gorement, Liers in Wait, and early Runemagick up there.

This, and might I add in Uncanny and Crypt of Kerberos.

 

[The Butt]

"Extreme" metal has its origins as early as the late 70's, according to wikipedia. Harsh vocals did not begin to exist until the mid 80's. Therefore your point is completely misinformed and off base. It appears that you, not me, needs to do a little more research about the roots of metal. The reason you're getting mad and upset is because you're being confronted with facts that are uncomfortable for you to accept.

Because wikipedia is obviously a reliable source on everything ever.

Extreme metal began with Possessed, Venom, and Bathory. Even Venom on Welcome to Hell, as early as 1981, and Kreator (as Tormentor) in 1982, employed primitive forms of extreme vocals. Your guess of "the late 70s" is way off base. Venom existed in 1979 but didn't actually release anything until 1980. So there goes your whole argument.

These bands set up the foundation for other bands to build upon, and set up the race to create the most filthy, savage, and abrasive music they could. These bands were definitely the first extreme metal acts, and they definitely employed harsh vocals.

Sooo... you're unequivocally, undebatably, factually wrong, basically.

Your argument boils down to accusing me of being "gay" and I'm the one who supposedly needs to learn how to debate better? LMAO!!! Grow up pal.

Ok, "I need clean vocals in everything because I have Tic Tac balls". Glad we could have this discussion.

I assure you, the feeling is more than mutual.

Is your disgust enough to make you want to leave and never return?

Please say yes.

 

[Phylactery]

I generally agree, although Like An Everflowing Stream isn't far behind. I'd also put Merciless, Gorement, Liers in Wait, and early Runemagick up there.

How could I forget The Ending Quest, definitely has the unique vibe of the others I listed. Maybe Afflicted's Prodigal Sun and Moondark's The Shadowpath belongs here too? The Awakening is fantastic, but it's just super aggressive death/thrash so I didn't feel it fit with what I listed.

I need to listen to early Runemagick more, I remember really enjoying The Supreme Force of Eternity.

I've owned Spiritually Uncontrolled Art for years and I remember it sounding like insanity caught on tape and being rather impenetrable and fragmented. Listening now and I definitely need to pay more attention to it!

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Opinion:

I prefer the more unique sounds of Swedish DM albums like The Red in the Sky Is Ours, Beyond Sanctorum and The Nocturnal Silence to the more "standard" sounds of the best albums by Dismember, Entombed, Grave, Carnage etc.

Umm .... The Nocturnal Silence definitely falls into the later "standard sound"(as far as Swedeath goes) part of your post. Nothing wrong with that though.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

Venom did not employ harsh vocals, surely not in the sense that they are understood by people today. Venom was mainly a thrash band, and multiple sources back up this point. Keith Kahn-Harris wrote a full book on extreme metal and he labels Venom as thrash metal. To the extent that Venom was black metal, it was only in the sense that their lyrical concepts and imagery were more satanic in nature than anything that preceded them.

My point is that heavy metal music was never meant to be about trying to create the most "ugly, filthy" sound as possible. That attitude is more in line with punk rock or garage rock than true heavy metal.

If you like extreme metal, great. Listen to it if you wish. But don't try to make it out to be something that it isn't. Do your research on the matter, read a few books, etc. If you have to resort to immature insults and ad hominem attacks to get your point across, your arguments won't make it in a debate.

 

[no country for old wainds]

yeah i was gonna say necrophobic actually have a lot of sunlight in their sound. i don't rly like it there or anywhere else but it doesn't ruin bands for me or anything.