Controversial opinions on metal

[Slayed Necros]

Metal was never meant to be a contest of "who can make the ugliest, noisiest sound?"

Except in their earliest stages, death and black metal definitely were.

 

[Baroque]

That isn't a musical text that classifies the piano as part of the percussion section. You won't find one because it's solely down to a technical function inside of the instrument. It has never been, and will continue to never be, a percussion family instrument.

"Orchestral instruments are, as a rule, grouped together under the four headings 'Percussion,' 'Brass,' 'Wood,' and 'Strings.' It is, however, by no means a scientific classification. In the first place, the four groups are not mutually exclusive. A stringed instrument, such as the Pianoforte, in which the sound is produced by means of percussion, can be classed in either the first or the last group." Cecil Forsyth - Orchestration

(The above is from my copy of that respected musical text, which is used in upper division musical coursework. page 13 if you're interested.)

 

[EternalMetal]

Metal was never meant to be a contest of "who can make the ugliest, noisiest sound?" I get the feeling that many extreme metal vocalists are trying to come off that way.

Something tells me that you havent heard too much death metal, because this actually does seem to be the case sometimes.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

I mean metal didn't start out that way.

 

[Baroque]

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-piano-a-percussion-instrument

Also, if you study instrument family groupings by related development, it is not classified in the percussion family according to most theory.

Lol you ask for a reputable source. I linked a Symphony Orchestra and a quote from a text on Orchestration. You linked quora.com.

Debating with you is losing its fun. It's too easy.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Yes, I like quite a bit of death and black metal on the instrumental side, especially melodic and progressive DM.

i have no idea why most melodic and progressive DM bands have extreme vocals, either. the bands i mentioned, on the other hand, would feel inherently compromised by clean vocals. it'd go against the entire spirit of the work.

 

[Baroque]

Here. I win. The ultimate source on orchestration.

From Principles of Orchestration (page 29-30) by Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov (Flight of the Bumblebee, Scheherezade,...)

"Percussion instruments producing determinate sounds: Kettle-drums, piano, celesta, glockenspiel, bells, xylophone."

 

[Omni]

Lol you ask for a reputable source. I linked a Symphony Orchestra and a quote from a text on Orchestration. You linked quora.com.

Debating with you is losing its fun. It's too easy.

I linked something written by a pianist. You didn't refute my statement that the piano is not recognized as a percussion instrument by the majority of musical texts. Orchestras do classify it as a percussion instrument.

The fact remains that it's really a chordaphone that was redesigned to have a hammered interface, which makes it a percussion instrument solely on a dubious level, which was my argument and continues to be my argument now.

 

[GuiltySpawn]

Well, I have listened to Autopsy for example. I don't mind their instrumentation, it's not bad for me. But again, I feel the vocals are a major turnoff. It might sound strange, but yes, I would prefer clean vocals on top of their instruments. Either that or no vocals at all.

 

[Krow]

Well, I have listened to Autopsy for example. I don't mind their instrumentation, it's not bad for me. But again, I feel the vocals are a major turnoff. It might sound strange, but yes, I would prefer clean vocals on top of their instruments. Either that or no vocals at all.

I'd prefer you didn't listen to it over Autopsy having clean vocals.

 

[Baroque]

I linked something written by a pianist. You didn't refute my statement that the piano is not recognized as a percussion instrument by the majority of musical texts. Orchestras do classify it as a percussion instrument.

Lol don't try and change what you said. You said "There isn't a musical text". I just quoted 2. One written by the master of orchestration himself.

I've yet to see you quote a musical text stating otherwise. Do you even own a musical text bro?

 

[EternalMetal]

I mean metal didn't start out that way.

Who cares? Its nice to see more variety than just a bunch of Sabbath clone bands. I think that harsh and abrasive vocals have been in metal long enough to be considered important to many metal subgenres. Whether you like them or not, they are a large part of what the music has evolved to become and definitely belong in the mix. I for one cant see the vocal style that you are wanting to be appropriate for these types of music.

 

[Baroque]

This guy's wrong dudes, because Omni says so

 

[GuiltySpawn]

@EternalMetal
If you're for variety in metal, then why not be in favor of trying to implement clean vocals into extreme metal? If you don't like all bands to just sound like clones of each other, why not try something new?

 

[Omni]

Most relevant musical texts related to classification of instruments into families are derived from the Hornbostel-Sachs system of classification, which does not consider the piano to be a percussion instrument based on what I already stated. That's the system that I am familiar with.

I assume that you can provide evidence that Hornbostel-Sachs is incorrect, when it's easily the most thoroughly encompassing system of classification by traits that you're likely to find.

 

[Baroque]

Most relevant musical texts related to classification of instruments into families are derived from the Hornbostel-Sachs system of classification, which does not consider the piano to be a percussion instrument based on what I already stated. That's the system that I am familiar with.

I assume that you can provide evidence that Hornbostel-Sachs is incorrect, when it's easily the most thoroughly encompassing system of classification by traits that you're likely to find.

Psh who cares what a couple of ethnomusicologists think. What did music did they write? I've never even heard of them before. I'm listening to masters of the craft like Rimsky-Korsakov. His text is The go to source of information on orchestration. I studied his text under a composer who had a direct link with Ravel.

 

[Omni]

Interestingly enough, writing music isn't a requirement to understand how an instrument's core function actually works or what it originated from. I'm glad that you dismissed what is literally evidence in support of my claim that my theory of choice is more widely accepted due to a well-documented system of classification on a superficial basis such as that.

 

[EternalMetal]

@EternalMetal
If you're for variety in metal, then why not be in favor of trying to implement clean vocals into extreme metal? If you don't like all bands to just sound like clones of each other, why not try something new?

Well, there are some bands who do try it, but a lot of the time it just doesnt sound right (unless it is more subtly done than I think you would like). Good vocalists in metal bands arent really clones of one another either. Lots of them have their own style. There is more diversity among extreme vocals than you seem to think. I know that this is the 'controversial opinions' thread, but most people who listen to this type of music would cringe at the idea of clean vocals being introduced into their favorite albums. It would be like having an electric guitar in an orchestra. Some rules should be followed. What bands implement clean vocals to your liking?

 

[no country for old wainds]

If you don't like all bands to just sound like clones of each other, why not try something new?

do you not see the irony of this comment, mr. "all vocals should be a certain way"?

clean vocals integrated into extreme metal is something i'd like to see explored more, as i've said before on this board. there are examples where it has worked really well.

 

[Krow]

who cares?

No one but you two.