Controversial opinions on metal

[Baroque]

I have given you a reason why I believe what I say is true. You have never given a reason for what you say to be true. Here you are now giving random opinions of other people, and using that as the reason why you believe what you posted is true. You couldnt and still cant give an explanation for your opinion, except that now you giver other peoples opinions ( excluding OZZY) , it suggests that you cant form your own opinions based upon your own thoughts and observations.

http://www.blacksabbath.com/history.html

first line on the Black Sabbath official website:
"Black Sabbath is credited with creating heavy metal."

So I've posted opinions from MTV, VH1, Grammies, Rolling Stone, Metallica, and Black Sabbath. But your personal opinion matters more right? Pretty egotistical there bro

"Not until Black Sabbath upended the music scene did the term “heavy metal” enter the popular vocabulary"

 

[Baroque]

It is amusing that you are presenting links to MTV and such places as though they have any clue about rock music lol. You like MTV then do you? MTV lol . The rock and roll hall of fame can fuck off as well. MTV lol

Provide a better expert on music then. Better than MTV, VH1, Grammies, Metallica, Rolling Stone, Encyclopedia Metallum, oh and Black Sabbath themselves. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Billboard also calls them Metal:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/c...sabbath-hot-tours-roundup-farewell-show-forum

Guitar World "Black Sabbath and Judas Priest defined the sound of heavy metal":
http://www.guitarworld.com/tony-iom...-and-more-outtake-2008-guitar-world-interview

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

In my opinion `heavy metal` is sort of where the band wears studs and such imagery as Judas Priests Rob Halford wears on stage, where they sort of act hard and hold their fist. clenched and such stereotypical poses.

 

[rusty water]

http://www.blacksabbath.com/history.html

first line on the Black Sabbath official website:
"Black Sabbath is credited with creating heavy metal."

So I've posted opinions from MTV, VH1, Grammies, Rolling Stone, Metallica, and Black Sabbath. But your personal opinion matters more right? Pretty egotistical there bro

"Not until Black Sabbath upended the music scene did the term “heavy metal” enter the popular vocabulary"

Yes they were responsible for the genre of heavy metal happening. Some of the next generation of bands copied things from Sabbath, and other bands, and exagerrated it, and that became heavy metal. Baroque you seem to be desperate now to prove that Sabbath are heavy metal. You havent provided a single explanation that is your own. You are now perusing the internet for links from other people. Ozzy disagrees with you. If you read my explanation, you will see what heavy metal is, and what Sabbath arent.

The term heavy metal came from the steppenwolf song, born to be wild. Also, in the UK there was a newspaper called `Sounds` , and a rock journalist called something like `geoff barton` ( I may be wrong ) anyway he was apparently the first to quote the term , or so he said, in relation to rock music, particularly bands like judas priest, anvil, and saxon. He and others also called Rush `heavy metal`, much to many peoples annoyance. Some people were saying Rush were heavy metal too.

 

[rusty water]

Yes they were responsible for the genre of heavy metal happening. Some of the next generation of bands copied things from Sabbath, and other bands, and exagerrated it, and that became heavy metal. Baroque you seem to be desperate now to prove that Sabbath are heavy metal. You havent provided a single explanation that is your own. You are now perusing the internet for links from other people. Ozzy disagrees with you. If you read my explanation, you will see what heavy metal is, and what Sabbath arent.

The term heavy metal came from the steppenwolf song, born to be wild. Also, in the UK there was a newspaper called `Sounds` , and a rock journalist called something like `geoff barton` ( I may be wrong ) anyway he was apparently the first to quote the term , or so he said, in relation to rock music, particularly bands like judas priest, anvil, and saxon. He and others also called Rush `heavy metal`, much to many peoples annoyance. Some people were saying Rush were heavy metal too.

There are bands in the rock and roll hall of fame that are `Heavy Metal`, but from your opinion of how it works, then they mustnt be, they must be rock and roll because the rock and roll hall of fame says so.

 

[CiG]

This guy is a fucking muppet.

 

[Baroque]

There are bands in the rock and roll hall of fame that are `Heavy Metal`, but from your opinion of how it works, then they mustnt be, they must be rock and roll because the rock and roll hall of fame says so.

heavy metal is a branch of rock and roll, not entirely distinct. Metallica is in the museum also, that means nothing unless you're going to claim that Metallica are not metal as well.

 

[CiG]

N.W.A. and Public Enemy are in the rock and roll hall of fame, it's hardly an indicator of anything concrete.

 

[Baroque]

I would add to that, that Judas Priest are totally and definately heavy metal.

Well then Rob Halford must be an expert on the subject of metal.

http://bravewords.com/features/juda...t-evil-track-ever-thats-been-written-in-metal


“To me Black Sabbath’s ‘Black Sabbath’ is the most evil track ever that’s been written in metal. And I had the opportunity to sing that track three times (Halford replaced Ronnie James Dio for two nights in November 1992 when Dio refused to open for Ozzy Osbourne. He also filled in for Ozzy at Ozzfest in Camden, New Jersey on August 26th, 2004, when the singer had bronchitis). It’s a very malevolent feeling when that song is played live. There’s this dark kind of thing that falls over the crowd and everybody shuts up, drops their cell phones and looks at the stage. It’s the most sinister of songs. When I had the opportunity to sing those first words - ‘what is this that stands before me’ - it’s like, ‘Oh my God, is that Satan in the front row?’ The most incredible heavy metal song that has that dark spirit.” - Rob Halford.

And with that, you are done. Goodnight.

 

[rusty water]

Well then Rob Halford must be an expert on the subject of metal.

http://bravewords.com/features/juda...t-evil-track-ever-thats-been-written-in-metal


“To me Black Sabbath’s ‘Black Sabbath’ is the most evil track ever that’s been written in metal. And I had the opportunity to sing that track three times (Halford replaced Ronnie James Dio for two nights in November 1992 when Dio refused to open for Ozzy Osbourne. He also filled in for Ozzy at Ozzfest in Camden, New Jersey on August 26th, 2004, when the singer had bronchitis). It’s a very malevolent feeling when that song is played live. There’s this dark kind of thing that falls over the crowd and everybody shuts up, drops their cell phones and looks at the stage. It’s the most sinister of songs. When I had the opportunity to sing those first words - ‘what is this that stands before me’ - it’s like, ‘Oh my God, is that Satan in the front row?’ The most incredible heavy metal song that has that dark spirit.” - Rob Halford.

And with that, you are done. Goodnight.

Thats rather egotistical of you to say, as you run off and try to cut ties with your opinion. Ozzy disagrees with you and Halford, and he wrote it.

I personally dont like heavy metal at all, I prefer blues riff rock bands like Rush and Sabbath. Heavy Metal has no feel and I cant listen to it. Baroque seems fond of displaying other peoples opinions as he has all through this, he cant provide any explanations of his own to explain why he has the opinions he does ( and I am not saying his opinions are necessarily wrong, because subjectively to him / her they are correct). Baroque relies on others for his own opinions. See, you have bands like Napalm Death, they are heavy metal? yes Id say they are. Id say Napalm Death are heavy metal, ( theres that many genres of metal ), would you say Napalm Death are like Sabbath? I would say absolutely not, not in any way. So you have a frequency, analogous to a radio, where one htz ( hertz ) is at the left of the scale and then say 100 htz at the right, and as you tune through you get progressively stronger types of heavy metal. The blues based riffs like Sabbath and Zeppelin and Deep Purple are way down on the left ( because blues scales predominatley) Sabbath are the furthest to the right of the three, and all are pioneers in a sense. Then you go to sort of UFO and Thin Lizzy, Thin Lizzy are definately not heavy metal, Im not siure about UFO but in my opinion they arent heavy metal. Then you get iron maiden , Id say they are metal ( I cant stand them ) and Judas priest are further right, and you can progress into black metal ( that Sabbath influenced ) speed and thrash metal and so on on the far right.

 

[rusty water]

heavy metal is a branch of rock and roll, not entirely distinct. Metallica is in the museum also, that means nothing unless you're going to claim that Metallica are not metal as well.

What it means Baroque even though you made some sort of weird declaration to everyone and ran off, what it means my friend is that, according to you, and your links, it means that, and as you have just ironically admitted, it means that although a company can have an award under a certain category, e.g. `heavy metal`, it means that it isnt necessarily so that the people THEY have in it are `heavy metal`. And Id add to that, that Metallica are most certainly `heavy metal` in my opinion. I cant stand them either.

The term `heavy metal` has become so widely used by the media these days as opposed to the late seventies and early 80`s that all types of this kind of music gets lumped under that term.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I personally dont like heavy metal at all

Then why are you posting here?

 

[rusty water]

Then why are you posting here?

I was looking at the progressive music thread, which is entertaining, and enjoyable. See, when I say I dont like Heavy Metal, I am meaning things like napalm death and thrash metal and speed metal and the like. I like bands such as Diamond Head whom I feel arent too drastic. My favourite music are the rock bands. I also like classical music and lots of other types. I dont like the type of metal where they wear studded wrist bands and do the Halford poses and act hard and the like. Rush are my favourite band I suppose, but only up to and including the power windows album, chromatically.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I think you're just some kid trying to seem like you have insider knowledge, based on the fact that reviewers in Creem and Rolling Stone were writing music reviews for bands like Black Sabbath, Sir Lord Baltimore and Deep Purple in the early 1970s using the term "heavy metal" to describe their music, which is where the term to prominence as a music descriptor.

 

[rusty water]

Insider information? on what? my opinion that Sabbath arent `heavy metal`? Deep Purple arent `heavy metal `either. Deep Purple are sort of hard rock with a blues influence. I find that blues scales are efficacious and very important in guitar riffs to produce good music. heavy metal riffs tend to be sort of soulless and mechanical, which I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it isnt my cup of tea. I do like Blackmore a lot, his blues approach in Purple and also his classical or renaissance type approach in early Rainbow, absolutely sublime and just utopia for me.Though, saying that, these days I prefer Classical music and real Art and literature.I grew up into Art and Literature. I am an old dude now, also, I am affraid.

 

[MrTagoMago]

It says this be hardcore punk but clearly it death metal I mean it's 2 souless and da vocals are clearly death metal singing and the feed back hert mai ears!

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Insider information? on what? my opinion that Sabbath arent `heavy metal`? Deep Purple arent `heavy metal `either. Deep Purple are sort of hard rock with a blues influence. I find that blues scales are efficacious and very important in guitar riffs to produce good music. heavy metal riffs tend to be sort of soulless and mechanical, which I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it isnt my cup of tea. I do like Blackmore a lot, his blues approach in Purple and also his classical or renaissance type approach in early Rainbow, absolutely sublime and just utopia for me.Though, saying that, these days I prefer Classical music and real Art and literature.I grew up into Art and Literature. I am an old dude now, also, I am affraid.

So you're an old dude who makes false claims on the internet such as...

A. Black Sabbath being an underground band in the 1970s despite them being one of the most popular rock bands of the era.

B. Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler saying Black Sabbath isn't a heavy metal band.

C. People didn't call Black Sabbath and similar bands heavy metal during the 1970s.

You said all of those things and none of them are actually true. My advice is to stop posting if this is all you have to say.

 

[rusty water]

So you're an old dude who makes false claims on the internet such as...

A. Black Sabbath being an underground band in the 1970s despite them being one of the most popular rock bands of the era.

B. Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler saying Black Sabbath isn't a heavy metal band.

C. People didn't call Black Sabbath and similar bands heavy metal during the 1970s.And in fact

You said all of those things and none of them are actually true. My advice is to stop posting if this is all you have to say.

the one you list as A.- I have already repeated several times that Sabbath were underground and very popular, i.e. only the rock fraternity / students knew about them for a long while ( as opposed to mainstream, meaning people who liked ABBA and John Travolta ). I am repeating myself here because you dont read, by mainstream I meant in houshold terms and all types of music.

B. They said it way back in a magazine interview WAY before the internet era.

C. I dont remember saying that, I dont think I said that, but if I did I meant in the pre `heavy metal` days.

So my advice to you is get your facts straight dude, and dont become a lawyer, you would suck at it ;p

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Yes they were responsible for the genre of heavy metal happening. Some of the next generation of bands copied things from Sabbath, and other bands, and exagerrated it, and that became heavy metal. Baroque you seem to be desperate now to prove that Sabbath are heavy metal. You havent provided a single explanation that is your own. You are now perusing the internet for links from other people. Ozzy disagrees with you. If you read my explanation, you will see what heavy metal is, and what Sabbath arent.

The term heavy metal came from the steppenwolf song, born to be wild. Also, in the UK there was a newspaper called `Sounds` , and a rock journalist called something like `geoff barton` ( I may be wrong ) anyway he was apparently the first to quote the term , or so he said, in relation to rock music, particularly bands like judas priest, anvil, and saxon. He and others also called Rush `heavy metal`, much to many peoples annoyance. Some people were saying Rush were heavy metal too.

Lester Bangs, Mike Saunders and David Marsh were all prominent reviewers in the 1970s who called bands such as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore and Led Zeppelin heavy metal in their reviews. Your revisionist history that the term was used first to describe bands like Saxon is a complete fabrication.

Also, the interview where you claim the Iommi and Butler said these things doesn't exist or it would be on a web archive. There are interviews where they call themselves heavy metal.

You also are not underground if you are a popular musician with RIAA platinum album and single sales in multiple countries. Rock music was extremely popular during that era.

 

[MrTagoMago]

My understanding is that Sabbath thought of themselves as a really heavy hard rock band at the time since heavy metal wasn't really a known term or genre at the time. That's not rejecting themselves being metal as much as they went in thinking they were one thing but found out they were another thing.

I mean does it matter though? If Elvis said he wasnt rock or suggested that he was jazz would that change the fact that he played rock music? Besides why do people take genres so seriouslly?