Controversial opinions on metal

[EternalMetal]

Dw, I don't disagree with this. It's just that I can see what he means when he says there's something mechanical in metal riffing that wasn't there in Sabbath or Hard Rock - which I think reflects the side of metal that isn't just heavy blues. That mechanical aspect tends to be what I enjoy about metal the most, incidentally.

It's pretty much the distinguishing feature that separates what we now think of as doom metal from heavy metal, which is why I guess there is any controversy at all. Sabbath would be considered doom metal if it were released today, but still metal.

You keep bringing up Napalm Death though.

I bring Napalm Death up as because to me that was the start of another change in `heavy metal` and to someone whom is a rock guitarist it is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen and heard in ANY genre of music. It is an example of differences in metal that I was getting across.

So basically you ask us if we like Napalm Death as a litmus test to discredit our opinions. Who is the one with the giant ego now? You dont know shit about metal.

 

[Baroque]

Insider information? on what? my opinion that Sabbath arent `heavy metal`? Deep Purple arent `heavy metal `either. Deep Purple are sort of hard rock with a blues influence. I find that blues scales are efficacious and very important in guitar riffs to produce good music. heavy metal riffs tend to be sort of soulless and mechanical, which I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it isnt my cup of tea. I do like Blackmore a lot, his blues approach in Purple and also his classical or renaissance type approach in early Rainbow, absolutely sublime and just utopia for me.Though, saying that, these days I prefer Classical music and real Art and literature.I grew up into Art and Literature. I am an old dude now, also, I am affraid.

You'll find several on here that can enjoy both classical and metal, myself included.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I bring Napalm Death up as because to me that was the start of another change in `heavy metal` and to someone whom is a rock guitarist it is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen and heard in ANY genre of music. It is an example of differences in metal that I was getting across.

Napalm Death is Grindcore. They are death grind to be specific. While Napalm Death are metal Grindcore is inherently rooted from hardcore punk specifically bands like Siege and Septic death. Also Terrorizer is a Grindcore band that is known for incredible riffs.

 

[Baroque]

I dont dislike all metal, there are just too many `genres` of it that I dont like, I do like some of the less drastic metal bands. I would NEVER listen to Napalm Death lol. I will listen to Diamond Head.

Before you said metal riffs were not your cup of tea. You also said you dislike metal and you prefer blues based hard rock bands. Now you're contradicting your own stated opinions.

 

[CiG]

`heavy metal` started in the early 80`s and with all the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.

Saxon are heavy metal. Saxon's debut came out in 1979. You're therefore wrong.
End of.

Lets move the fuck on before we turn into mongs.

 

[rusty water]

I haven't argued with you about what Ritchie Blackmore said, so it won't prove anything that I care about. I did ask you to show me where Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler said that Black Sabbath isn't heavy metal, if you care to ever actually show evidence of that claim.

I provided evidence that the term "heavy metal" was used by reviewers in major publications from 1970 onward to describe Black Sabbath and other bands. The reviewers in particular went to the United Kingdom to attend concerts and interview musicians and their publications were read on both sides of the Atlantic.

You have to understand what it is that we are talking about. I will explain again for you. You are saying that everything that has ever been saidd in Rock or in Rock interviews is available to view online. This is what you keep saying, so I offer you the chance to find the Ritchie Blackmore interview in which he said that, and not because Blackmore is in the discussion, but that according to you every interview that Rock bands have made is available on line. So I give this as an example of proof that what you say about all interviews being available online is false, is wrong, not true. Is that clear for you??? So off you go and find it. Oh hang on you keep making excuses not to, because you will be proven wrong. Is that clear also???

 

[rusty water]

Saxon are heavy metal. Saxon's debut came out in 1979. You're therefore wrong.
End of.

Lets move the fuck on before we turn into mongs.

I went watching Saxon on their `Wheels of Steel` album tour, they were backing Motorhead up. Saxon were amongst the first of the British Heavy Metal bands. They were unknown-ish at that point. I think. Ive seen Saxon a few times. Saxon and Anvil and others were starting to appear around then. They werent BIG then though

 

[rusty water]

Before you said metal riffs were not your cup of tea. You also said you dislike metal and you prefer blues based hard rock bands. Now you're contradicting your own stated opinions.

Well Diamond Head used a bluesy rock style, they werent drastic metal like some. Its not all black and white out there. Some Sabbath riffs are the same as `heavy metal` however I personally wouldnt say Sabbath are `heavy metal`

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

You have to understand what it is that we are talking about. I will explain again for you. You are saying that everything that has ever been saidd in Rock or in Rock interviews is available to view online. This is what you keep saying, so I offer you the chance to find the Ritchie Blackmore interview in which he said that, and not because Blackmore is in the discussion, but that according to you every interview that Rock bands have made is available on line. So I give this as an example of proof that what you say about all interviews being available online is false, is wrong, not true. Is that clear for you??? So off you go and find it. Oh hang on you keep making excuses not to, because you will be proven wrong. Is that clear also???

Let me explain something to you:

If you make a claim in a debate, you are expected to provide evidence that it is true.

Asking me to find something that you claim exists, again without evidence that it does, would not prove the existence of another interview. In fact, both the Blackmore and Black Sabbath interviews may not exist at all so they would both be unable to be located. It isn't my job to look for evidence of your claims.

I provided evidence that my claims were correct. Expecting you to do the same for yours is not unreasonable.

 

[CiG]

I went watching Saxon on their `Wheels of Steel` album tour, they were backing Motorhead up. Saxon were amongst the first of the British Heavy Metal bands. They were unknown-ish at that point. I think. Ive seen Saxon a few times. Saxon and Anvil and others were starting to appear around then. They werent BIG then though

More irrelevant shite.

So off you go and find it. Oh hang on you keep making excuses not to, because you will be proven wrong.

I'll try to find it.

What magazine was it and what year?

 

[MrTagoMago]

Let's just all agree dis is the most br00tal metal there is.

 

[rusty water]

Let me explain something to you:

If you make a claim in a debate, you are expected to provide evidence that it is true.

Asking me to find something that you claim exists, again without evidence that it does, would not prove the existence of another interview. In fact, both the Blackmore and Black Sabbath interviews may not exist at all so they would both be unable to be located. It isn't my job to look for evidence of your claims.

I provided evidence that my claims were correct.

The post I made was true, they did say that. Ozzy himself also has always said that he doesnt consider Sabbath as `heavy metal` and nor does he consider his own solo stuff `heavy metal`.

 

[rusty water]

More irrelevant shite.



I'll try to find it.

What magazine was it and what year?

irrelevant shite? is this a discussion or one of your arguement ego things CASSETTEISGOD?

Oh I thought the Blackmore thing was irrelevant too? you changed your mind? it was in sounds magazine around the time of the rainbow album `difficult to cure` .

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

The post I made was true, they did say that. Ozzy himself also has always said that he doesnt consider Sabbath as `heavy metal` and nor does he consider his own solo stuff `heavy metal`.

I will believe you are telling the truth when you show me an interview where Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler say Black Sabbath isn't heavy metal as you claimed they said earlier. Until then, you have provided no evidence that they said it.

Interestingly enough, there are interviews where both state that Black Sabbath is heavy metal.

 

[Baroque]

irrelevant shite? is this a discussion or one of your arguement ego things CASSETTEISGOD?

you honestly believe you do not have an ego? honest question

 

[rusty water]

Let's just all agree dis is the most br00tal metal there is.

MrTagoMago, dude, you should get a job in a sheet-metal factory you would love it!

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I don't think Deep Purple were consistently a metal band but I certainly think Deep Purple in Rock was a metal album through and through.

I'd definitely include Machine Head(their heaviest album) and Fireball in there also. Burn and Perfect Strangers have pretty good doses of metal too.

 

[rusty water]

I will believe you are telling the truth when you show me an interview where Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler say Black Sabbath isn't heavy metal as you claimed they said earlier. Until then, you have provided no evidence that they said it.

Interestingly enough, there are interviews where both state that Black Sabbath is heavy metal.

Those will be later on when `heavy metal` became a tag that all such things were lumped under. They were calling Rainbow `heavy metal ` too.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

You are joking right? `child in time` is heavy metal?

Ummm, are you saying that its not?!?

 

[Baroque]

I'd call them proto metal for the record, but I don't want to reopen the DP thing any further than that