Controversial opinions on metal

[rusty water]

Lester Bangs, Mike Saunders and David Marsh were all prominent reviewers in the 1970s who called bands such as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore and Led Zeppelin heavy metal in their reviews. Your revisionist history that the term was used first to describe bands like Saxon is a complete fabrication.

Also, the interview where you claim the Iommi and Butler said these things doesn't exist or it would be on a web archive. There are interviews where they call themselves heavy metal.

You also are not underground if you are a popular musician with RIAA platinum album and single sales in multiple countries. Rock music was extremely popular during that era.

Elric you are embarrassing yourself now. You are now posting that someone, I presume in the States was calling Led Zeppelin `heavy metal` in the 70`s. Well let me tell you, let me tell you, Led Zeppelin are NOT heavy metal, so what you post about whomever this person is, is non-factual, you are reiterrating Baroques idiocy. Non-factual as in it isnt true, because Zeppelin are NOT heavy metal. you are embarrassing yourself. I am not keep repeating myself on the interviews I read. Ive had the same in the past where I quoted Blackmore, and people couldnt find it `online` ( because it was pre-internet).

And once again I shall repeat how you have got my post out of context with what I meant ( I shant repeat it again I shall refer you to reread my posts ) they were underground in the sense that grannies and aunties and dustbin men and astronauts and regular people hadnt heard of them, not underground meaning low record sales, they were HUGE. I was using it as a reference to how they are since `the Osbournes` show on telly happened and they were catapulted into what I meant by mainstream as in now even my Mum knows who Ozzy and Sabbath are. Because my Mum likes mainstream music, NOT Metal, and she had never heard of them. the last decade she has, and infact she is now a Sharon Osbourne fan.

 

[rusty water]

My understanding is that Sabbath thought of themselves as a really heavy hard rock band at the time since heavy metal wasn't really a known term or genre at the time. That's not rejecting themselves being metal as much as they went in thinking they were one thing but found out they were another thing.

Yes Id agree with that. Also, I was around in the seventies, and it was all classed as `hard rock` and `rock music`. When the next generation of bands happened is when `heavy metal` happened. Ozzy doesnt consider Sabbath or himself as `heavy metal` either.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

You're a joke poster. Got it.

I also just learned that the people who invented using heavy metal as a music descriptor were using it wrong because of your enlightened posts.

 

[rusty water]

You're a joke poster. Got it.

I also just learned that the people who invented using heavy metal as a music descriptor were using it wrong because of your enlightened posts.

The difference between myself and posters on here, like yourself, is that I dont have an ego. What I mean by that is you seem to have this thing whereby a discussion becomes like a competition to you and you wont let go when you have been proven wrong in what you say. You turn a discussion into an argument, and sort of need to not lose face or something. You need to stop with the ego. You keep wriggiling and twisting and trying to get at things from different angles. See, I dont argue, I discuss. This post from yourself is the latest attempt at ` ner-ner-ner ` etc lol

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Right. I'm the one trying not to lose face here. That's why you keep backtracking nd changing your statements.

I'd love an explanation for Mike Saunders' review of Sir Lord Baltimore in 1971 that calls them heavy metal or the big focus of Lester Bangs and David Marsh on music that includes Deep Purple and Black Sabbath with them using those terms from 1971 onward in Creem magazine. I would love to know how they used a phrase that Geoff Barton or whoever invented years later according to you.

 

[CiG]

I personally dont like heavy metal at all, I prefer blues riff rock bands like Rush and Sabbath.

Hahahaha. You really are a dumb cunt.

B. They said it way back in a magazine interview WAY before the internet era.

Magazines often archive interviews with bands that have massive followings. Show us where they said it.

Elric you are embarrassing yourself now.

Wrong. You're the only one doing that.

The difference between myself and posters on here, like yourself, is that I dont have an ego.

You don't have a brain either, it would seem.

 

[MrTagoMago]

If I recall I read the term heavy metal was coined as far back as 1959 but the earliest I know of ofcourse was Born to be wild which was recorded in 68 if I'm right? Not sure it matters but I'm not sure what more can be added to the conversation at this point.

As for Led Zeppelin id say some of their songs could be described as heavy metal or at the very least proto metal but as a whole were not metal however like Kiss I would say that whether they like it or not are in fact relevant to metal culture and I can see why they would have been called metal at the time by some.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

The term was used in literature first. Steppenwolf used it as a song lyric later. Then it was used as a musical descriptor around 1970 for Humble Pie of all bands by Mike Saunders, who then went on to review Sir Lord Baltimore and use the term for them as well.

A lot of bands were referred to as heavy metal around that time that aren't viewed that way now. I don't personally view Led Zeppelin or Uriah Heep as heavy metal and neither do most people anymore, but they were included in that group. Black Sabbath, on the other hand, has all of the characteristics that people associate with traditional heavy metal music.

 

[rusty water]

Hahahaha. You really are a dumb cunt.



Magazines often archive interviews with bands that have massive followings. Show us where they said it.



Wrong. You're the only one doing that.



You don't have a brain either, it would seem.

See this is what I mean with the ego. We have CASSETTEISGOD here thinking he knows better than myself in what my tastes are in music. I like blues based riffs, like the one from the song` Black Sabbath`, that is a good blues riff from Iommi.

This idiot then goes on to re - re - repeat something I have repeatedly answered and shown myself to be correct many times during this thread, the pre-internet one. This fool thinks that everything pre-internet is online.

His other posts are pure ego, with the puerile name calling and making statements that only in HIS opinion are true. See, there is no such thing as the truth to some people, only the individuals own subjective perception. CASSETTEISGOD is showing his immaturity. He is another one that is chucking his dummy because someone thinks Black Sabbath arent `heavy metal`, it is amusing to watch. However I discuss things, I dont argue. If Ozzy came in here and said that he doesnt think Sabbath is `heavy metal` it is clear that CASSETTEISGOD would start with his performance on Ozzy. He is embarrassing himself infront of everyone.

 

[rusty water]

The term was used in literature first. Steppenwolf used it as a song lyric later. Then it was used as a musical descriptor around 1970 for Humble Pie of all bands by Mike Saunders, who then went on to review Sir Lord Baltimore and use the term for them as well.

A lot of bands were referred to as heavy metal around that time that aren't viewed that way now. I don't personally view Led Zeppelin or Uriah Heep as heavy metal and neither do most people anymore, but they were included in that group. Black Sabbath, on the other hand, has all of the characteristics that people associate with traditional heavy metal music.

Id agree with ALL of that except that I also dont see Black Sabbath as `heavy metal`. They are more Hard Rock. But thats my opinion.

Id also add that the people whom you are naming, I havent heard of i.e. Mike Saunders, if he is a journalist ( I dont know) , I am UK and it was in `sounds` magazine that the term `heavy metal` was coined here. But all along the same lines yes.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

At this point, you basically have to admit that people called them heavy metal in the 1970s though, contradictory to what you claimed earlier.

 

[CiG]

I'm willing to admit Black Sabbath weren't a completely heavy metal band in the beginning, but many of their songs are undoubtedly blueprints for heavy metal.

But, I am absolutely not willing to admit that heavy metal doesn't become a genre until 1980 and beyond. In my opinion, heavy metal is a fully formed genre by the middle of the 70's.
Objectively by 1976 with the release of Sad Wings Of Destiny.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I don't see how anyone can really say that songs like Children of the grave or Symptom of the universe are more hard rock than they are heavy metal. I don't think Deep Purple were consistently a metal band but I certainly think Deep Purple in Rock was a metal album through and through.

 

[rusty water]

Right. I'm the one trying not to lose face here. That's why you keep backtracking nd changing your statements.

I'd love an explanation for Mike Saunders' review of Sir Lord Baltimore in 1971 that calls them heavy metal or the big focus of Lester Bangs and David Marsh on music that includes Deep Purple and Black Sabbath with them using those terms from 1971 onward in Creem magazine. I would love to know how they used a phrase that Geoff Barton or whoever invented years later according to you.

I havent heard of Sir Lord Baltimore, or Mike Saunders and not really so much of Lester Bnags either. I havent heard of David Marsh either. Maybe they are a USA thing, I am UK. If he is the same person whom someone quoted as saying that Led Zeppelin are `heavy metal` then there isnt any reason to go down that path. I am UK not USA. So what you read there aint what I read here necessarily.

 

[rusty water]

I don't see how anyone can really say that songs like Children of the grave or Symptom of the universe are more hard rock than they are heavy metal. I don't think Deep Purple were consistently a metal band but I certainly think Deep Purple in Rock was a metal album through and through.

You are joking right? `child in time` is heavy metal? lol

See, Blackmore was a Hendrix fan, his intro to speed king was Hendrix based, as were a few other of his riffs. So, do you think Hendrix was `heavy metal` too???

Yes those riffs by Sabbath I could see why people whom like `heavy metal` would like them, but to a Sabbath fan as myself, they are rock riffs. And I really like the acoustic part after the symptom song ends.
Children of the grave I dont like, I dont like Iron Man or paranoid either, sick of hearing them and they have done a lot better.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Lester Bangs and Mike Saunders both contributed to Rolling Stone magazine. David Marsh co-founded Creem magazine with Lester Bangs. They were not only famous in the United States.

 

[CiG]

You are joking right? `child in time` is heavy metal? lol

You think a heavy metal album must have 100% heavy metal songs? Fucking cringe.

If Ozzy came in here and said that he doesnt think Sabbath is `heavy metal` it is clear that CASSETTEISGOD would start with his performance on Ozzy. He is embarrassing himself infront of everyone.

Why would anyone care about what the vocalist thinks beyond generally respecting his opinion? Let me know when he starts writing riffs dickhead.

This fool thinks that everything pre-internet is online.

You're a liar, you didn't read shit and you can't prove it, even though Black Sabbath interviews from the old days are easy to track down. You're a bullshitter with piss for a brain. Why would I not be insulting you? You're an annoying retard and I'm not that nice most of the time.

Hasn't even heard Sir Lord Baltimore and he's trying to educate us on what is or isn't heavy metal.

So, do you think Hendrix was `heavy metal` too???

Doom metal bands use sabbathian riffs, does that make them not metal?

 

[MrTagoMago]

You are joking right? `child in time` is heavy metal? lol

See, Blackmore was a Hendrix fan, his intro to speed king was Hendrix based, as were a few other of his riffs. So, do you think Hendrix was `heavy metal` too???

I would say Child in time is metal in the same way Hallowed be thy name by Iron Maiden is metal. Do you consider Iron Maiden metal?

 

[rusty water]

At this point, you basically have to admit that people called them heavy metal in the 1970s though, contradictory to what you claimed earlier.

I am Uk so I wasnt reading exactly what you were reading. I was out there going to the giggs and living it also. Thats where I got my opinions from.
Heavy Metal bands started in the next generation of bands after Sabbath, thats where it was, and yes, of course Sabbath is similar to `heavy metal` because what they were doing lead to that genre, but they were blues based and `heavy metal` that happened next was slightly different.

 

[Internally Deformed]

I could see an argument to say that Black Sabbath weren't a heavy metal band (at least on the early Ozzy albums) and were actually a doom metal band, given that the tempo of heavy metal is usually much faster, and palm mutes are used more often as a rhythmic device. That still makes them a metal band, though, at least if you're not willing to argue that every doom band is also disqualified from being metal.