Controversial opinions on metal

[rusty water]

You said that the term "heavy metal" was not used in the early 1970s to describe Black Sabbath and other similar bands. That's factually wrong.

You also stated that Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler said that they aren't heavy metal, which never occurred ever or you would be able to document it. There are interviews where both musicians call their music heavy metal.

They werent using the term `heavy metal` where I am until the early 80`s. And I reiterate once again, the interviews were pre-internet.

 

[rusty water]

They werent using the term `heavy metal` where I am until the early 80`s. And I reiterate once again, the interviews were pre-internet.

I remember quoting Blackmore as saying that `after Graham Bonnet left the band I was looking for a singer and not someone who just shouted at the top of their voice`, and I havent searched for it, but people have said that they couldnt find that on line. I replied that it was in the sounds newspaper in the UK and was pre-internet, but they didnt believe it , because - not online

 

[Internally Deformed]

Diminished maybe, but it is still a strong influence in a lot of doom metal (which is probably a more appropriate, non-era-dependant label for Sabbath). My point was that blues-influenced riffs arent particularly a non-metal style of play, like this guy is leading us to believe. Even in some earlier death metal you hear a lot of blues-inspired pentatonic riffing. It may not be as pervasive in the style today, but objectively you cannot exclude a band from being metal just because it is blues influenced.

Dw, I don't disagree with this. It's just that I can see what he means when he says there's something mechanical in metal riffing that wasn't there in Sabbath or Hard Rock - which I think reflects the side of metal that isn't just heavy blues. That mechanical aspect tends to be what I enjoy about metal the most, incidentally.

 

[rusty water]

Well his music sucks dick at least

I like `number of the beast` and `piece of mind` of the albums he was on. I agree that the other albums of his with maiden both sucked AND blowed.

Ironically here, I like the albums that Dianno did with maiden and it is also a paradox that to me Maiden were more Metal with the first two albums than they were with Dickinson, they went the other way!

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

They werent using the term `heavy metal` where I am until the early 80`s. And I reiterate once again, the interviews were pre-internet.

1. Rolling Stone is the most popular magazine ever and was sold in Europe in the 1970s. Articles and reviews that appeared in it would be common knowledge in America and Europe. The reviewers went to the UK to interview musicians and attend concerts.

2. Creem magazine was (shockingly) also available in the United Kingdom. Lester Bangs in particular is considered to be the most influential journalist to cover metal music and punk music in the United Kingdom.

3. Regardless of where the term originated, your professed lack of knowledge of its existence isn't valid evidence that it wasn't used in the 1970s.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Rusty do you think that Grindcore is a sub genre of metal?

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Weird how I can find articles, interviews and magazine entries from the 1970s to support my views but interviews with famous musicians that @rusty water claims exist to support his views are nowhere to be found. The internet didn't exist when the reviews I cite were written either.

 

[rusty water]

1. Rolling Stone is the most popular magazine ever and was sold in Europe in the 1970s. Articles and reviews that appeared in it would be common knowledge in America and Europe. The reviewers went to the UK to interview musicians and attend concerts.

2. Creem magazine was (shockingly) also available in the United Kingdom. Lester Bangs in particular is considered to be the most influential journalist to cover metal music and punk music in the United Kingdom.

3. Regardless of where the term originated, your professed lack of knowledge of its existence isn't valid evidence that it wasn't used in the 1970s.

They certainly werent using it extensively as I didnt come across it until `heavy metal` started in the early 80`s and with all the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.

 

[rusty water]

Rusty do you think that Grindcore is a sub genre of metal?

I have only heard of Grindcore, and have no real knowledge of it, so cant form an opinion dude.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I have only heard of Grindcore, and have no real knowledge of it, so cant form an opinion dude.

You keep bringing up Napalm Death though.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

They certainly werent using it extensively as I didnt come across it until `heavy metal` started in the early 80`s and with all the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.

Again, your professed personal experiences are not evidence that everyone else had the same experiences as you.

 

[rusty water]

Weird how I can find articles, interviews and magazine entries from the 1970s to support my views but interviews with famous musicians that @rusty water claims exist to support his views are nowhere to be found. The internet didn't exist when the reviews I cite were written either.

See if you can find the interview with Blackmore where he said that ` when Graham Bonnet left the band I was looking for a singer rather than someone who just shouted at the top of their voice` go find that one, apparently people couldnt find it online. That was in sounds magazine.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

See if you can find the interview with Blackmore where he said that ` when Graham Bonnet left the band I was looking for a singer rather than someone who just shouted at the top of their voice` go find that one, apparently people couldnt find it online. That was in sounds magazine.

I haven't talked about what Blackmore said even once during this conversation. Why would I care about that now?

 

[Baroque]

rusty you said yourself you don't even like metal, so how do you believe your opinion on what is metal holds more weight than actual metalheads?

 

[rusty water]

You keep bringing up Napalm Death though.

I bring Napalm Death up as because to me that was the start of another change in `heavy metal` and to someone whom is a rock guitarist it is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen and heard in ANY genre of music. It is an example of differences in metal that I was getting across.

 

[rusty water]

I haven't talked about what Blackmore said even once during this conversation. Why would I care about that now?

What you mean is that you know you wont be able to find it and it will prove my point.

 

[rusty water]

rusty you said yourself you don't even like metal, so how do you believe your opinion on what is metal holds more weight than actual metalheads?

I dont dislike all metal, there are just too many `genres` of it that I dont like, I do like some of the less drastic metal bands. I would NEVER listen to Napalm Death lol. I will listen to Diamond Head.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

What you mean is that you know you wont be able to find it and it will prove my point.

I haven't argued with you about what Ritchie Blackmore said, so it won't prove anything that I care about. I did ask you to show me where Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler said that Black Sabbath isn't heavy metal, if you care to ever actually show evidence of that claim.

I provided evidence that the term "heavy metal" was used by reviewers in major publications from 1970 onward to describe Black Sabbath and other bands. The reviewers in particular went to the United Kingdom to attend concerts and interview musicians and their publications were read on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[rusty water]

These new bands they dont seem to be able to write the really good songs like the rock musicians were regularly doing in the seventies and eighties.

 

[Baroque]

now even my Mum knows who Ozzy and Sabbath are. Because my Mum likes mainstream music, NOT Metal, and she had never heard of them. the last decade she has, and infact she is now a Sharon Osbourne fan.

my mom listened to Sabbath in the 70's. therefore my mom is cooler than your mom. And she'd agree that Sabbath were well known back then btw.