Controversial opinions on metal

[Baroque]

I would add to that, that Judas Priest are totally and definately heavy metal.

Well then Rob Halford must be an expert on the subject of metal.

http://bravewords.com/features/juda...t-evil-track-ever-thats-been-written-in-metal


“To me Black Sabbath’s ‘Black Sabbath’ is the most evil track ever that’s been written in metal. And I had the opportunity to sing that track three times (Halford replaced Ronnie James Dio for two nights in November 1992 when Dio refused to open for Ozzy Osbourne. He also filled in for Ozzy at Ozzfest in Camden, New Jersey on August 26th, 2004, when the singer had bronchitis). It’s a very malevolent feeling when that song is played live. There’s this dark kind of thing that falls over the crowd and everybody shuts up, drops their cell phones and looks at the stage. It’s the most sinister of songs. When I had the opportunity to sing those first words - ‘what is this that stands before me’ - it’s like, ‘Oh my God, is that Satan in the front row?’ The most incredible heavy metal song that has that dark spirit.” - Rob Halford.

And with that, you are done. Goodnight.

 

[rusty water]

Well then Rob Halford must be an expert on the subject of metal.

http://bravewords.com/features/juda...t-evil-track-ever-thats-been-written-in-metal


“To me Black Sabbath’s ‘Black Sabbath’ is the most evil track ever that’s been written in metal. And I had the opportunity to sing that track three times (Halford replaced Ronnie James Dio for two nights in November 1992 when Dio refused to open for Ozzy Osbourne. He also filled in for Ozzy at Ozzfest in Camden, New Jersey on August 26th, 2004, when the singer had bronchitis). It’s a very malevolent feeling when that song is played live. There’s this dark kind of thing that falls over the crowd and everybody shuts up, drops their cell phones and looks at the stage. It’s the most sinister of songs. When I had the opportunity to sing those first words - ‘what is this that stands before me’ - it’s like, ‘Oh my God, is that Satan in the front row?’ The most incredible heavy metal song that has that dark spirit.” - Rob Halford.

And with that, you are done. Goodnight.

Thats rather egotistical of you to say, as you run off and try to cut ties with your opinion. Ozzy disagrees with you and Halford, and he wrote it.

I personally dont like heavy metal at all, I prefer blues riff rock bands like Rush and Sabbath. Heavy Metal has no feel and I cant listen to it. Baroque seems fond of displaying other peoples opinions as he has all through this, he cant provide any explanations of his own to explain why he has the opinions he does ( and I am not saying his opinions are necessarily wrong, because subjectively to him / her they are correct). Baroque relies on others for his own opinions. See, you have bands like Napalm Death, they are heavy metal? yes Id say they are. Id say Napalm Death are heavy metal, ( theres that many genres of metal ), would you say Napalm Death are like Sabbath? I would say absolutely not, not in any way. So you have a frequency, analogous to a radio, where one htz ( hertz ) is at the left of the scale and then say 100 htz at the right, and as you tune through you get progressively stronger types of heavy metal. The blues based riffs like Sabbath and Zeppelin and Deep Purple are way down on the left ( because blues scales predominatley) Sabbath are the furthest to the right of the three, and all are pioneers in a sense. Then you go to sort of UFO and Thin Lizzy, Thin Lizzy are definately not heavy metal, Im not siure about UFO but in my opinion they arent heavy metal. Then you get iron maiden , Id say they are metal ( I cant stand them ) and Judas priest are further right, and you can progress into black metal ( that Sabbath influenced ) speed and thrash metal and so on on the far right.

 

[rusty water]

heavy metal is a branch of rock and roll, not entirely distinct. Metallica is in the museum also, that means nothing unless you're going to claim that Metallica are not metal as well.

What it means Baroque even though you made some sort of weird declaration to everyone and ran off, what it means my friend is that, according to you, and your links, it means that, and as you have just ironically admitted, it means that although a company can have an award under a certain category, e.g. `heavy metal`, it means that it isnt necessarily so that the people THEY have in it are `heavy metal`. And Id add to that, that Metallica are most certainly `heavy metal` in my opinion. I cant stand them either.

The term `heavy metal` has become so widely used by the media these days as opposed to the late seventies and early 80`s that all types of this kind of music gets lumped under that term.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I personally dont like heavy metal at all

Then why are you posting here?

 

[rusty water]

Then why are you posting here?

I was looking at the progressive music thread, which is entertaining, and enjoyable. See, when I say I dont like Heavy Metal, I am meaning things like napalm death and thrash metal and speed metal and the like. I like bands such as Diamond Head whom I feel arent too drastic. My favourite music are the rock bands. I also like classical music and lots of other types. I dont like the type of metal where they wear studded wrist bands and do the Halford poses and act hard and the like. Rush are my favourite band I suppose, but only up to and including the power windows album, chromatically.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I think you're just some kid trying to seem like you have insider knowledge, based on the fact that reviewers in Creem and Rolling Stone were writing music reviews for bands like Black Sabbath, Sir Lord Baltimore and Deep Purple in the early 1970s using the term "heavy metal" to describe their music, which is where the term to prominence as a music descriptor.

 

[rusty water]

Insider information? on what? my opinion that Sabbath arent `heavy metal`? Deep Purple arent `heavy metal `either. Deep Purple are sort of hard rock with a blues influence. I find that blues scales are efficacious and very important in guitar riffs to produce good music. heavy metal riffs tend to be sort of soulless and mechanical, which I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it isnt my cup of tea. I do like Blackmore a lot, his blues approach in Purple and also his classical or renaissance type approach in early Rainbow, absolutely sublime and just utopia for me.Though, saying that, these days I prefer Classical music and real Art and literature.I grew up into Art and Literature. I am an old dude now, also, I am affraid.

 

[MrTagoMago]

It says this be hardcore punk but clearly it death metal I mean it's 2 souless and da vocals are clearly death metal singing and the feed back hert mai ears!

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Insider information? on what? my opinion that Sabbath arent `heavy metal`? Deep Purple arent `heavy metal `either. Deep Purple are sort of hard rock with a blues influence. I find that blues scales are efficacious and very important in guitar riffs to produce good music. heavy metal riffs tend to be sort of soulless and mechanical, which I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that it isnt my cup of tea. I do like Blackmore a lot, his blues approach in Purple and also his classical or renaissance type approach in early Rainbow, absolutely sublime and just utopia for me.Though, saying that, these days I prefer Classical music and real Art and literature.I grew up into Art and Literature. I am an old dude now, also, I am affraid.

So you're an old dude who makes false claims on the internet such as...

A. Black Sabbath being an underground band in the 1970s despite them being one of the most popular rock bands of the era.

B. Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler saying Black Sabbath isn't a heavy metal band.

C. People didn't call Black Sabbath and similar bands heavy metal during the 1970s.

You said all of those things and none of them are actually true. My advice is to stop posting if this is all you have to say.

 

[rusty water]

So you're an old dude who makes false claims on the internet such as...

A. Black Sabbath being an underground band in the 1970s despite them being one of the most popular rock bands of the era.

B. Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler saying Black Sabbath isn't a heavy metal band.

C. People didn't call Black Sabbath and similar bands heavy metal during the 1970s.And in fact

You said all of those things and none of them are actually true. My advice is to stop posting if this is all you have to say.

the one you list as A.- I have already repeated several times that Sabbath were underground and very popular, i.e. only the rock fraternity / students knew about them for a long while ( as opposed to mainstream, meaning people who liked ABBA and John Travolta ). I am repeating myself here because you dont read, by mainstream I meant in houshold terms and all types of music.

B. They said it way back in a magazine interview WAY before the internet era.

C. I dont remember saying that, I dont think I said that, but if I did I meant in the pre `heavy metal` days.

So my advice to you is get your facts straight dude, and dont become a lawyer, you would suck at it ;p

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Yes they were responsible for the genre of heavy metal happening. Some of the next generation of bands copied things from Sabbath, and other bands, and exagerrated it, and that became heavy metal. Baroque you seem to be desperate now to prove that Sabbath are heavy metal. You havent provided a single explanation that is your own. You are now perusing the internet for links from other people. Ozzy disagrees with you. If you read my explanation, you will see what heavy metal is, and what Sabbath arent.

The term heavy metal came from the steppenwolf song, born to be wild. Also, in the UK there was a newspaper called `Sounds` , and a rock journalist called something like `geoff barton` ( I may be wrong ) anyway he was apparently the first to quote the term , or so he said, in relation to rock music, particularly bands like judas priest, anvil, and saxon. He and others also called Rush `heavy metal`, much to many peoples annoyance. Some people were saying Rush were heavy metal too.

Lester Bangs, Mike Saunders and David Marsh were all prominent reviewers in the 1970s who called bands such as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore and Led Zeppelin heavy metal in their reviews. Your revisionist history that the term was used first to describe bands like Saxon is a complete fabrication.

Also, the interview where you claim the Iommi and Butler said these things doesn't exist or it would be on a web archive. There are interviews where they call themselves heavy metal.

You also are not underground if you are a popular musician with RIAA platinum album and single sales in multiple countries. Rock music was extremely popular during that era.

 

[MrTagoMago]

My understanding is that Sabbath thought of themselves as a really heavy hard rock band at the time since heavy metal wasn't really a known term or genre at the time. That's not rejecting themselves being metal as much as they went in thinking they were one thing but found out they were another thing.

I mean does it matter though? If Elvis said he wasnt rock or suggested that he was jazz would that change the fact that he played rock music? Besides why do people take genres so seriouslly?

 

[rusty water]

Lester Bangs, Mike Saunders and David Marsh were all prominent reviewers in the 1970s who called bands such as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore and Led Zeppelin heavy metal in their reviews. Your revisionist history that the term was used first to describe bands like Saxon is a complete fabrication.

Also, the interview where you claim the Iommi and Butler said these things doesn't exist or it would be on a web archive. There are interviews where they call themselves heavy metal.

You also are not underground if you are a popular musician with RIAA platinum album and single sales in multiple countries. Rock music was extremely popular during that era.

Elric you are embarrassing yourself now. You are now posting that someone, I presume in the States was calling Led Zeppelin `heavy metal` in the 70`s. Well let me tell you, let me tell you, Led Zeppelin are NOT heavy metal, so what you post about whomever this person is, is non-factual, you are reiterrating Baroques idiocy. Non-factual as in it isnt true, because Zeppelin are NOT heavy metal. you are embarrassing yourself. I am not keep repeating myself on the interviews I read. Ive had the same in the past where I quoted Blackmore, and people couldnt find it `online` ( because it was pre-internet).

And once again I shall repeat how you have got my post out of context with what I meant ( I shant repeat it again I shall refer you to reread my posts ) they were underground in the sense that grannies and aunties and dustbin men and astronauts and regular people hadnt heard of them, not underground meaning low record sales, they were HUGE. I was using it as a reference to how they are since `the Osbournes` show on telly happened and they were catapulted into what I meant by mainstream as in now even my Mum knows who Ozzy and Sabbath are. Because my Mum likes mainstream music, NOT Metal, and she had never heard of them. the last decade she has, and infact she is now a Sharon Osbourne fan.

 

[rusty water]

My understanding is that Sabbath thought of themselves as a really heavy hard rock band at the time since heavy metal wasn't really a known term or genre at the time. That's not rejecting themselves being metal as much as they went in thinking they were one thing but found out they were another thing.

Yes Id agree with that. Also, I was around in the seventies, and it was all classed as `hard rock` and `rock music`. When the next generation of bands happened is when `heavy metal` happened. Ozzy doesnt consider Sabbath or himself as `heavy metal` either.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

You're a joke poster. Got it.

I also just learned that the people who invented using heavy metal as a music descriptor were using it wrong because of your enlightened posts.

 

[rusty water]

You're a joke poster. Got it.

I also just learned that the people who invented using heavy metal as a music descriptor were using it wrong because of your enlightened posts.

The difference between myself and posters on here, like yourself, is that I dont have an ego. What I mean by that is you seem to have this thing whereby a discussion becomes like a competition to you and you wont let go when you have been proven wrong in what you say. You turn a discussion into an argument, and sort of need to not lose face or something. You need to stop with the ego. You keep wriggiling and twisting and trying to get at things from different angles. See, I dont argue, I discuss. This post from yourself is the latest attempt at ` ner-ner-ner ` etc lol

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Right. I'm the one trying not to lose face here. That's why you keep backtracking nd changing your statements.

I'd love an explanation for Mike Saunders' review of Sir Lord Baltimore in 1971 that calls them heavy metal or the big focus of Lester Bangs and David Marsh on music that includes Deep Purple and Black Sabbath with them using those terms from 1971 onward in Creem magazine. I would love to know how they used a phrase that Geoff Barton or whoever invented years later according to you.

 

[CiG]

I personally dont like heavy metal at all, I prefer blues riff rock bands like Rush and Sabbath.

Hahahaha. You really are a dumb cunt.

B. They said it way back in a magazine interview WAY before the internet era.

Magazines often archive interviews with bands that have massive followings. Show us where they said it.

Elric you are embarrassing yourself now.

Wrong. You're the only one doing that.

The difference between myself and posters on here, like yourself, is that I dont have an ego.

You don't have a brain either, it would seem.

 

[MrTagoMago]

If I recall I read the term heavy metal was coined as far back as 1959 but the earliest I know of ofcourse was Born to be wild which was recorded in 68 if I'm right? Not sure it matters but I'm not sure what more can be added to the conversation at this point.

As for Led Zeppelin id say some of their songs could be described as heavy metal or at the very least proto metal but as a whole were not metal however like Kiss I would say that whether they like it or not are in fact relevant to metal culture and I can see why they would have been called metal at the time by some.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

The term was used in literature first. Steppenwolf used it as a song lyric later. Then it was used as a musical descriptor around 1970 for Humble Pie of all bands by Mike Saunders, who then went on to review Sir Lord Baltimore and use the term for them as well.

A lot of bands were referred to as heavy metal around that time that aren't viewed that way now. I don't personally view Led Zeppelin or Uriah Heep as heavy metal and neither do most people anymore, but they were included in that group. Black Sabbath, on the other hand, has all of the characteristics that people associate with traditional heavy metal music.