Controversial opinions on metal

[MrTagoMago]

Why is Iron Maiden Metal but not Black Sabbath even though Sabbath is heavier than Iron Maiden. Would you consider Iron Claw and Bedemon to be heavy metal?

 

[rusty water]

I'm willing to admit Black Sabbath weren't a completely heavy metal band in the beginning, but many of their songs are undoubtedly blueprints for heavy metal.

But, I am absolutely not willing to admit that heavy metal doesn't become a genre until 1980 and beyond. In my opinion, heavy metal is a fully formed genre by the middle of the 70's.
Objectively by 1976 with the release of Sad Wings Of Destiny.

I can see what you are saying, and I agree with it all. Their music is a blueprint for `heavy metal`. But in my opinion Sabbath are hard rock based. Metal is different.

 

[rusty water]

The last part isn't an opinion, just an appeal to logical consistency. Would you say this is metal?

Id say that is a band that is ripping Black Sabbath off.I mean blatantly. It sounds like something that would be on volume 4

 

[rusty water]

Why is Iron Maiden Metal but not Black Sabbath even though Sabbath is heavier than Iron Maiden. Would you consider Iron Claw and Bedemon to be heavy metal?

Iron Maiden has no blues feel to it, it is manufactured riffs, mechanical. To me, it is plastic, not metal lol. See, do you think Hendrix is metal, some of his riffs are heavier than some of Sabbaths and Iron Maidens.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Id say that is a band that is ripping Black Sabbath off.I mean blatantly.

*defines genre of doom metal*

 

[CiG]

You keep appealing to Ozzy's opinion, well I googled it and his contention over the heavy metal label had nothing at all to do with music in a technical sense but rather that it was angry people screaming into a microphone...

Sabbath are hard rock based. Metal is different.

Metal is hard rock based though.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Iron Maiden has no blues feel to it, it is manufactured riffs, mechanical. To me, it is plastic, not metal lol. See, do you think Hendrix is metal, some of his riffs are heavier than some of Sabbaths and Iron Maidens.

Hendrix has metal elements but I'd never say he was pure metal by any means. I do believe metal existed before Sabbath but I think Sabbath was the first true metal band if that makes sense. You also ignored my question about Iron Claw and Bedemon.

 

[MrTagoMago]

*defines genre of doom metal*

I wonder if this means Sabbath were a blatant rip off of High tide lol.

 

[rusty water]

*defines genre of doom metal*

Sabbath are a blues based hard rock band though. This band are copying that, not the other way around. That is what, in my opinion Sabbath are, a blues based hard rock band. Yes, some of their riffs could be seen as being `heavy metal` riffs, but they arent a metal band, their roots are blues rock, and they, to me are a `heavy rock` band. In fact theat the term everyone I knew always used for Sabbath ` heavy rock`

 

[rusty water]

Hendrix has metal elements but I'd never say he was pure metal by any means. I do believe metal existed before Sabbath but I think Sabbath was the first true metal band if that makes sense. You also ignored my question about Iron Claw and Bedemon.

The reason I didnt post about Iron Claw and Bedemon is that I have never heard of them, and so cannot form an opinion, remember I am old school. I was out of the rock loop in the mid nineties dude.

 

[Internally Deformed]

Sabbath are a blues based hard rock band though. This band are copying that, not the other way around. That is what, in my opinion Sabbath are, a blues based hard rock band. Yes, some of their riffs could be seen as being `heavy metal` riffs, but they arent a metal band, their roots are blues rock, and they, to me are a `heavy rock` band. In fact theat the term everyone I knew always used for Sabbath ` heavy rock`

Where do you draw the line in Doom Metal then? It would be hard to make an argument that a band like Candlemass, for instance, are metal, whereas Pentagram and Black Sabbath aren't.

 

[CiG]

Sabbath are a blues based hard rock band though. This band are copying that, not the other way around. That is what, in my opinion Sabbath are, a blues based hard rock band. Yes, some of their riffs could be seen as being `heavy metal` riffs, but they arent a metal band, their roots are blues rock, and they, to me are a `heavy rock` band. In fact theat the term everyone I knew always used for Sabbath ` heavy rock`

He's saying there is an entire metal genre based around essentially copying Black Sabbath. So by extension you're saying doom metal isn't metal.

 

[MrTagoMago]

The reason I didnt post about Iron Claw and Bedemon is that I have never heard of them, and so cannot form an opinion, remember I am old school. I was out of the rock loop in the mid nineties dude.

Iron Claw and Bedemon are 70s bands.

 

[rusty water]

Where do you draw the line in Doom Metal then? It would be hard to make an argument that a band like Candlemass, for instance, are metal, whereas Pentagram and Black Sabbath aren't.

That is the key thing, where to draw the line. I find that the nuances, in my opinion, are the way that the songs are, the riffs and also how they present themselves on stage, like the clichéd Halford thing with all the studs and clenched fist etc. But there are so many genres of it now, I am an old school heavy rock fan and am ignorant of most of todays `heavy metal`.

 

[MrTagoMago]

That is the key thing, where to draw the line. I find that the nuances, in my opinion, are the way that the songs are, the riffs and also how they present themselves on stage, like the clichéd Halford thing with all the studs and clenched fist etc. But there are so many genres of it now, I am an old school heavy rock fan and am ignorant of most of todays `heavy metal`.

No one so far has mentioned any modern metal bands from today. The most recent is Candlemass who were 80s. Pentagram has been around since the mid 70s.

 

[rusty water]

He's saying there is an entire metal genre based around essentially copying Black Sabbath. So by extension you're saying doom metal isn't metal.

There is an entire genre of that? of copying Sabbath ? really ? that is very amusing. See, I am out of the loop, I am old school heavy rock fan. I am out of the loop since the mid nineties. So I cant form an opinion on `doom metal`. But I imagine we can invent another genre of `metal` today, here, that never existed before by using a keyword before the word metal. A word that is synonimous with Horror.

 

[Phylactery]

His whole reason for saying Black Sabbath isn't a metal band seems to stem from the fact that he doesn't like heavy metal but he likes Black Sabbath so therefore they must not be metal. He also doesn't seem to have much knowledge on metal in the first place, I mean going by his response to the Pentagram song posted, it seems he's never heard them before.

I find genre arguments to be completely asinine anyway, but his definition of what makes something heavy metal was dumb as fuck. It's like me defining rap and hip hop as music made by gangsters about banging hoes and shooting people just because I don't like it, which would be incredibly superficial of me.

 

[Internally Deformed]

I am out of the loop since the mid nineties. So I cant form an opinion on `doom metal`.

Are you sure you were ever in the loop?

 

[Internally Deformed]

It's like me defining rap and hip hop as music made by gangsters about banging hoes and shooting people just because I don't like it.

Already been there and done that.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Why do you keep bringing up that you are oldschool and have been out of the loop since the 90s when no one has mentioned any bands from beyond the 80s?