Controversial opinions on metal

[Baroque]

Hearsay arguments in this vein just don't interest me. I prefer proof.

That's cool, but some things are simply unprovable, and you have to describe them some other way. If you only talk about provable things then you are severely limiting yourself in topics.

Today I gave a 20 minute presentation to a room full of NASA scientists. None of it was provable since it was statistics based. But they still found the findings worth discussing for the next 30 minutes.

 

[CiG]

That's cool, but some things are simply unprovable, and you have to describe them some other way. If you only talk about provable things then you are severely limiting yourself in topics.

Fully agreed. What I'm complaining about is more just the fact that we've come to a point in our discussion where, without moving into areas of proof, we will just be circle jerking in disagreement.

 

[Baroque]

Alright then, we shall clear the forum for the next pair of needlessly argumentative folks

 

[MrTagoMago]

Rock the casbah is one of the greatest songs ever.

 

[Baroque]

Rock the casbah is one of the greatest songs ever.

Lol wtf

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I've never heard it before but I'm liking it. Groovy. Almost lost my shit when he started talking about "the in crowd". I should get into The Clash. I could put a London Calling bumper sticker on my car and everything.

 

[CiG]

Alright then, we shall clear the forum for the next pair of needlessly argumentative folks

This is why I like you, you're reasonable.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I've never heard it before but I'm liking it. Groovy. Almost lost my shit when he started talking about "the in crowd". I should get into The Clash. I could put a London Calling bumper sticker on my car and everything.

London Calling is a great album that imo for the most part does live up to the hype. I know a lot of people who are bigger into punk would fight me on that but I like it a lot besides it's more post punk and new wave than straight up punk. Rock the Casbah has always been a favorite of mine though it's groovy like you said as well as catchy, quirky, and and has some epic sound effects.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

Not sure how obvious I have to make it that I was talking about the TV exactly like I would an album that is OOP since he insisted on using that analogy to try to act like I was dumb for not wanting to download an album. I don't own it so I won't take it. I explained this to you already despite it being obvious in the first place. Again, thanks for your time.

Saying "I don't own it so I won't take it" makes no sense in such a scenario. No one has any claim of ownership to discarded items; there's an overwhelming consensus that you relinquish such claims when you throw it away in the first place. The scenario he laid out leaves virtually no possibility that the TV was simply misplaced. It would make about as much sense to say you wouldn't forage wild mushrooms from the forest because you don't own them.

You did not argue that taking discarded items was not analogous to downloading OOP albums, even though you could have gone that route. Since you did not, I'm focusing on the fact that you are willing to let a perfectly good TV go to waste, and you consider that a claim of moral high ground. If you already have two TV's, just donate the new one instead of letting it sit in a ditch.

 

[Vilden]

I must say, after waking up and finding a huge conspiratorial argument about who is who, you guys always deliver! So don't stop!

Btw @HamburgerBoy you should really change back to your old lizard-avatar, your posts works so well with his smug look. X)

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I never thought he looked that smug, although he actually is a fairly smug character in the games. I'll compromise and pick an avatar that takes both after a fat smug fuck and vintage metal cover art.

 

[EspaDa]

So between Elric, rusty water, MrTagoMago, and Internally Deformed, how many of them are actually new members?

That Internally Deformed guy is really bizarre, he reminds me of CIG when he joined this forum as he's eternally online and posts so fucking much.

 

[The Ozzman]

If you can afford to have internet in your dwelling, you can afford to have internet access on your phone unless you have shitty finances or your job doesn't pay you tbh. Blame Canada. I probably drink more than The Butt and I can afford both. That isn't a legitimate excuse (and it was probably because you were drunk that you said it).

Also, the discussion about who is Omni wouldn't exist without this thread. You're welcome.

I would also like empirical evidence that only 61% of Americans have a smartphone or whatever.

 

[CiG]

as he's eternally online and posts so fucking much.

Fair. This is the only social media I really use, but I'm beginning to reuse fagbook again so I might have less of a presence here.

 

[The Ozzman]

I'm going to do the thing that you guys suggested. Tell me what you would like me to have written down in my photos, and I'll even throw in having this site open on a computer in my photos.

It seems like good fun and then you all can move on from this fixation.

Have yourself with Pornhub in the background of your computer with some Czech porn playing with a sign saying 'Aug was here'

 

[Vegard Pompey]

"Elric of Melnibone"

is an anagram for

"I Be Omni, Fell Crone".

just sayin'.

 

[EternalMetal]

It's not a matter of quality. Example: it's the 80's and downloading is as common as it is today, if everybody downloaded Slowly We Rot we would likely not see Cause Of Death follow, or we would see it follow with a different, smaller label with a smaller studio budget, regardless of quality.

That is one huge hypothetical, and based on a false premise. If downloading was as common as it was today, not everyone would download SWR. I still dont see how a band who ended up being so influential would have been so bogged down by the downloading that their sophomore album never would have existed. Comparing the boom days of metal to the somewhat oversaturated and stagnant industry of today, and making inferences about the influence of downloading is a little unfair I think. So many other factors would be at play in this scenario that I cant see downloading as the prime mover.

As for tape trading, I dont think you are realizing that this WAS the downloading era of the 80s. The "Home taping is killing music" slogan of the 80s was a response to the same type of market stressors that you are mentioning, albeit downloading an album is easier than receiving one from someone else. Nevertheless, the music scene was inherently more socially based without the influence of the internet, so the analogy is more similar than you are giving credit towards.

I actually don't care so much about the legality of it, I care about the ethics. It feels wrong.

At this point I think I will take the same route as Baroque and agree to disagree then. I prefer to think that the band would rather me hear their release than to avoid it if I cannot otherwise obtain a hard copy in an era where this music is unavailable. You view it as an implied breach of morality because the hard copies of music should match the distribution of it. I have made my arguments; any more would just be repetition in a desire to somehow convince you of my viewpoint.

 

[CiG]

Happy to concede on the last part as a simple difference of ethics.

First point is merely basic economics so I'm not sure how I can make the point any clearer for you. Labels give out money for studio time as an investment, if they don't even make back that budget money through album sales, not only are they likely not going to contract that band for another release, they might even have to close down the label.

The underground has always kept itself alive through small labels that hope to simply break even while they help bands get their music out there.

Exclusive downloaders need people that spend money on albums for their practice to continue.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Saying "I don't own it so I won't take it" makes no sense in such a scenario. No one has any claim of ownership to discarded items; there's an overwhelming consensus that you relinquish such claims when you throw it away in the first place. The scenario he laid out leaves virtually no possibility that the TV was simply misplaced. It would make about as much sense to say you wouldn't forage wild mushrooms from the forest because you don't own them.

You did not argue that taking discarded items was not analogous to downloading OOP albums, even though you could have gone that route. Since you did not, I'm focusing on the fact that you are willing to let a perfectly good TV go to waste, and you consider that a claim of moral high ground. If you already have two TV's, just donate the new one instead of letting it sit in a ditch.

You seem to be having trouble understanding basic logic.

I am literally treating the discarded TV like an OOP album that I could download but choose not to as I have repeatedly stated, since that is what he was using it to represent in his analogy. It makes perfect sense to say I don't want an album and won't download it.

In the analogy:

TV in a ditch = OOP album that won't be reissued

Taking the TV from the ditch = Dowloading the album

My existing TVs = Music I already own

I personally think the analogy is shitty. You seem to just not understand how analogies work. If the TV is a valid representation for an out of print piece of music that I could download as you seem to believe, treating it like an out of print piece of music makes perfect sense.

In the real world where a discarded item is not the same as someone's intellectual property like it supposedly is in a bad analogy, I would probably call up someone I know so they could come get it for their house. In bad analogy world, I have to treat it like the analogous object even though it's a bad analogy that I think is invalid.

Again, logic. Use it.

Have yourself with Pornhub in the background of your computer with some Czech porn playing with a sign saying 'Aug was here'

That would just demonstrate that I'm @rimlord and I don't have any desire to be him.

 

[Internally Deformed]

That Internally Deformed guy is really bizarre, he reminds me of CIG when he joined this forum as he's eternally online and posts so fucking much.

CIG is my gun toting, Trump supporting, record purchasing australian alter ego. There's nothing more fun than having insult heavy ten page arguments with myself and inflicting them on this forum.

But yeah, I have way too much free time at the moment, it isn't healthy.