Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 15,042
- 4,723
- 113
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
The way Messiah sang the songs on Nightfall is just too ingrained in my mind to imagine it being sung better by anybody else.
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
Metal_Cultist
kindly sacrificing
I don't consider Venom's "Black Metal" to be black metal. Under any definition of black metal.
Kreator and Dark Angel are by far the two best thrash bands (honorable mention to Sodom). Slayer is highly overrated, and even Metallica's best albums aren't THAT great. Frankly, thrash metal is kind of a weak sub-genre, despite it's historical context and peoples nostalgia.
Opeth's early work at times is really brilliant, but mostly just boring.
I find Symphony X's music to be superior to Dream Theater.
---
Ok, hate on haters.
Kreator and Dark Angel are by far the two best thrash bands (honorable mention to Sodom). Slayer is highly overrated, and even Metallica's best albums aren't THAT great. Frankly, thrash metal is kind of a weak sub-genre, despite it's historical context and peoples nostalgia.
Opeth's early work at times is really brilliant, but mostly just boring.
I find Symphony X's music to be superior to Dream Theater.
---
Ok, hate on haters.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Any definition? Seems like a foolish position, considering there is at least one definition it obviously falls under, the definition that existed immediately after that album came out. Then there's the 'first wave black metal' definition...
I think what you meant to say is, that album isn't black metal, based on what black metal became afterwards.
I agree and disagree. If you cut them off at Reign In Blood, I think they're accurately rated as one of the greatest metal bands of the 1980's, however if you go by their entire output and how much people obsess over their quite obviously crummy post-Reign In Blood material, sure they're overrated.
Define "Metallica's best" otherwise this can just mean all things to all people, ie nothing.
Ride The Lightning is one of the metal GOATs in my opinion, the rest I could take or leave if I'm brutally honest.
I think you're exactly wrong on this one, it's the opposite. Thrash metal is one of the strongest, most consistent and most broadly palatable of all the metal subgenres, and that opinion has nothing to do with nostalgia as I'm only 28 and not old enough to be nostalgic about thrash metal.
Also, Dark Angel and Kreator are pretty great, but I wouldn't say I agree with them being the best the genre has to offer.
More accurately I would say they produced a few works each that are the genre's best. But went to utter crap rather fast.
Metal_Cultist
kindly sacrificing
A fair point - I should have said, under any 'reasonable' definition.
The rest are just disagreements. Opinions are like assholes, they say...(but I do agree Ride the Lightning is probably their best album - one of metals best? LOLZ)
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
It fits under no contemporary definition of black metal. It's thrash/speed metal. Let's not pretend like it's something else because they talk about the devil.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Contemporary being the keyword here that the OP didn't use.
Black metal pre-Under The Sign Of The Black Mark was obviously just defined by certain energies, atmosphere and attitudes. It was much more of a subjective, romanticised thing.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 15,042
- 4,723
- 113
Manic Ferocity
Active Member
- Nov 5, 2006
- 5,280
- 549
- 113
I would argue that just about every black metal scene was different in both the first and second waves -- particularly when it comes to the style of riffs. It sounds cheesy but they all just feel like black metal.
Obviously the first wave was just extreme metal's lines blurred between thrash, black, and death metal, but then you have the Hellenic scene in the second wave that doesn't sound like anything else, including any of their contemporaries in other countries. That pretty much rings true for every scene in the second wave -- but maybe some to more varying degrees.
I don't think the standard for black metal songwriting stuck to the Norwegian stereotype of icy cold tremolo picking as much as some people might have you believe. That's what I'm basically getting at here.
Obviously the first wave was just extreme metal's lines blurred between thrash, black, and death metal, but then you have the Hellenic scene in the second wave that doesn't sound like anything else, including any of their contemporaries in other countries. That pretty much rings true for every scene in the second wave -- but maybe some to more varying degrees.
I don't think the standard for black metal songwriting stuck to the Norwegian stereotype of icy cold tremolo picking as much as some people might have you believe. That's what I'm basically getting at here.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 15,042
- 4,723
- 113
A lot of Hellenic black metal is basically trad/power metal (sometimes trad doom) though. The "feel" may still be there, but the riffs are not unique to black metal. Many of those bands could cover certain Manowar songs verbatim, and they would be indistinguishable from their originals.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Very much this. I think people fundamentally misunderstand black metal in this way. It's quite obviously a product of people that got into post-80's black metal first.
If you got into metal before the 90's I expect this way of thinking would be less common.
Slayed Necros
Void
The Return is clearly black metal, despite what you turds think.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
EspaDa
Damage Case
Hey, what happened to @Internally Deformed? That guy used to be annoying as fuck but also contributed well to the forum.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
He did say he was going on holiday or something and he's been gone for about two weeks so far.
Similar threads
