Controversial opinions on metal

[Elric of Melniboné]

Their continuing influence is a product of the popularity of their early material in countries like Greece that have a disproportionate appreciation for classic 80s trad/power, catalyzed by the internet. The exact same reason Manilla Road has "continuing influence". It has little to do with Manowar's major label album sales reaching a greater audience.

How come you all of a sudden understand the basic term "continuing influence" and can use it properly despite not being able to fathom it a few minutes ago?

Their major label releases sold well enough to hit the album charts in several countries. Unless you can provide some correlation between their influence and your claims, it seems pretty obvious that people still know Manowar because they're famous. Newer bands are still influenced by them because people still know who they are due to their relative fame.

I have statistics on my side. I would love to know what proof you can provide that I'm wrong.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That's not even what this argument is about. You made a specific claim that CD sales and major label status are significant on the ability to influence the underground. I'm disputing this on the basis that influence on the underground during the 80s was primarily driven through tape trading and zines.

EDIT: irt your earlier post

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Their major label releases sold well enough to hit the album charts in several countries. Unless you can provide some correlation between their influence and your claims, it seems pretty obvious that people still know Manowar because they're famous. Newer bands are still influenced by them because people still know who they are due to their relative fame.

I have statistics on my side. I would love to know what proof you can provide that I'm wrong.

Are independent label bands that hit album charts also disqualified? And who cares about Manowar's charts? They had a decent hit in the UK because those folk are apparently patriotic. They're successful in Germany because those people probably drink too much beer. You completely disregarded my point about Slayer, Exodus, Helloween, etc because you know it disproves your bullshit. Any band influenced by Manowar today is almost certainly also going to be aware of Manilla Road; you've provided no way of separating the two based on major label releases.

You've provided no statistics that prove your claim. All you've proven is that Manowar has sold more than Manilla Road, and that they've been signed to major albums. Neither of those prove that their influence is due primarily to that.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I stated that Manowar has a continuing influence that is at least partially related to their fame as a major label metal act that has a large fanbase and has sold a relatively large of albums. They became more famous after signing to a major label and that's clearly part of why they're a well-known band.

Did I state that being on a major label is the only reason why they were influential? No. In fact, I was very clear that this was not the case. There is no doubt that some of their continuing influence is due to their fame.

As I stated earlier, Manilla Road is very influential for an underground band. Comparing them to a band that has been on a major label for nearly 20 years and became much more famous after releasing albums through major labels than they were prior doesn't really make sense.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

Oh and I didn't claim that I provided statistics. I claimed that album sales chart statistics exist that support my claim that their fame has grown since joining major labels. These are readily accessible to you if you want to read them. It's not my job to read things on the internet for you so you can have informed opinions.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

They clearly became much more popular after signing with a major label, which boosted the sales of their albums in general.

Manowar was on a major label for less than a decade, and at no point can you ever say they were famous.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh and I didn't claim that I provided statistics. I claimed that album sales chart statistics exist that support my claim that their fame has grown since joining major labels. These are readily accessible to you if you want to read them. It's not my job to read things on the internet for you so you can have informed opinions.

I'm already aware of Manowar's rather poor chart figures. Please address the rest of my post.

You completely disregarded my point about Slayer, Exodus, Helloween, etc because you know it disproves your bullshit. Any band influenced by Manowar today is almost certainly also going to be aware of Manilla Road; you've provided no way of separating the two based on major label releases.

All you've proven is that Manowar has sold more than Manilla Road, and that they've been signed to major albums. Neither of those prove that their influence is due primarily to that.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

When did I say that was the primary reason for them being influential? Why should I have to address a claim that I didn't make?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

When did I say that was the primary reason for them being influential? Why should I have to address a claim that I didn't make?

OK, how much of Manowar's influence is due to their presence on a major label? Roughly speaking, of course. Half? A quarter? An eighth? If you're admitting that it's a secondary or tertiary factor, then I don't see why that should disqualify them in a comparison with Manilla Road, being that it would be a relatively minor factor.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

There's no way to prove how much or how little of an impact it had on their popularity, but they've sold many more albums since being on a major label than they did before signing with one, so it seems obvious that they became much more well-known after they signed with a major label. There's no accurate way to measure how they became as influential as they are now, but fame clearly played a part in their wide recognition in the metal community.

I've honestly lost interest in this discussion because you spent a lot of time arguing against something that I didn't even say. I don't have anything else to add.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Jeez, you still remember when and where I posted this? Sorry I scarred you so much with an original thought. I know that can be traumatizing for sheep, so I'll make sure and put a "trigger warning" label next time I critique a highly overrated canon band.

Oh, blow it out your ass. Sorry I've offended you by not having the memory of a concussed dementia patient. No one was traumatized you degenerate.

 

[The Butt]

Lol at someone using the term "sheep" unironically.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Lol at someone using the term "sheep" unironically.

I didn't know Alex Jones frequented UM.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Most bands are immaculate geniuses that trump Venom.

Yeah, no.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

There is a search function on the site. I'm not sure why people act like it's hard to find posts. I think that most forums have this feature.

 

[Mort Divine]

Manilla Road, Virgin Steele, Emperor, Nokturnal Mortum...

your dislike of manilla road is whatever at this point, but virgin steele (least from The Marriage of Heaven and Hell through The House of Atreus) shits on most things i've seen you go nuts over

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Virgin Steele is weak, overlong dad metal. It's like modern Iron Maiden only even more dull.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

lol. The problem with them specifically is that they fill all available space with their riffs on the first album, and use them basically just following the same progression of the keys. Metal that doesn't emphasize rhythm guitar is a waste.

Yeah, that's also untrue.


This has clear riffs that don't follow the same progression of the keys. The only time that's even somewhat applicable is the riff starting at 0:35, for which it could more accurately be said that the keys follow the riff. There's the outro riff at 5:04 that might appear to be doing so, but it's already introduced at 4:17 without any keyboard backing, so it's likewise a case of the keys following the riff.


The opening riff, the one appearing shortly thereafter at 0:11, and the one at 4:16 are all memorable riffs that function as standalone melodies.

But that fact that you said "metal that doesn't emphasize rhythm guitar is a waste" tells me all I need to know about your mindset. A band could have plenty of epic riffs, but if it also has a lot of parts that aren't centered around "dat rhythm guitar", you won't be able to sustain an erection throughout the entire song, so clearly it's weaksauce.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Later Emperor isn't as bad, it's the first album I have the most issue with. The riffs are still boring, no chop, just noise density and rigid drumming.

 

[EchoForever]

just noise density and rigid drumming.

so, raw black metal?