EchoForever
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Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
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MrTagoMago
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EchoForever
HAIL!
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MrTagoMago
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You're an idiot if you think those bands are worse than Trivium.
And I'd rather listen to ICP than Trivium, for the record.
HamburgerBoy
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Trivium is uninteresting but competent, basically a second-rate Testament with some lame 00s-metal moments thrown in. Some of their stuff works fine for background thrash, occasionally they get too melodic and wussy, but overall not a bad band. Virgin Steele is even more generic, with much worse songwriting and competency. I'd love you to give Virgin Steele a decent defense.
Serjeant Grumbles
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You just dislike Virgin Steele because the name triggers you.
Manilla Road is great metal.
Nokturnal Mortum has released some great albums and one or two even greater albums.
Emperor is alright; poorly executed most of the time but when they hit the mark its aight. More than I can say for Trivium. Utterly ininteresting music.
Nokturnal Mortum has released some great albums and one or two even greater albums.
Emperor is alright; poorly executed most of the time but when they hit the mark its aight. More than I can say for Trivium. Utterly ininteresting music.
HamburgerBoy
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Elric of Melniboné
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What's wrong with Manilla Road anyway? I can't take anyone seriously if they try to act like they're terrible.
MrTagoMago
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HamburgerBoy
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Horrible songwriting. Their arrangements are often very repetitive and repeat basic, short riffs for far too long. The vocal melodies tend to resemble nursery rhymes in their repetition and structure as well. Sometimes they put in the effort (The Fires of Mars is a great song), usually they don't.
Good songwriters. Everything comes together despite average musicianship and instrumental proficiency to form a cohesive, great whole.
You just don't like them because "muh riffs" or something stupid. In which case again I tell you to suck dicks in hell.
Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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The compositional traits that you mentioned can be applied to a lot of songs by bands that I know that you like, but I appreciate the explantion. Their songs aren't markedly more simplistic than a many other traditional metal bands and are often more ambitious than you seem to be willing to admit.
In terms of being an influential underground figurehead, they're also one of the more definitive bands. I'm going to just save you the trouble of disputing this by highlighting the fact that Leif Edling cites them as an influence on his music and has listened to them since Crystal Logic came out. He wrote the liner notes for the most recent edition of the album and has mentioned how he signed with Black Dragon Records to release Epicus Doomicus Metallicus because he wanted to be on the same label as Manilla Road.
HamburgerBoy
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Care to give examples of bands you know I like? Crystal Logic is far more repetitious than even stuff like Battle Cry, and Omen at least has the good sense to keep most songs in the 3-5 minute range. They're ambitious in that "epic" is clearly their goal, but half-ass it in execution.
Have I attacked Manilla Road's influence? I don't deny their influence, although I'd argue that most USPM ultimately wasn't that influential in the grand scheme of metal (it's a niche market), so it's kind of irrelevant.
Serjeant Grumbles
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If we're going to talk specifically about Emperor, it would be futile to explain what makes them great since you apparently think they don't have riffs - an opinion so off base it's managed somehow to wander from Busch Stadium to Wrigley Field.
Elric of Melniboné
The White Wolf
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A really good example of a band that I know that you like with a good number of pretty simplistic, rocking songs and singalong melodies is early Manowar. I personally don't have a problem with that element of their music as I happen to be a huge fan of Manowar and listen to them almost every day when I drive. I don't suppose that you hate all of those Manowar songs either.
There are definitely Manilla Road songs that have varied song structure and don't have upbeat vocal parts that are fun to sing along to like nursery rhymes. Crystal Logic has a good balance of both sides of their music. The albums that came after it trend towards having more varied songwriting on them.
And no, you haven't attacked Manilla Road's influence. I was just making it clear in advance that you would be wrong if you attempted to do so after I stated that they were influential. Their scope of influence is more than just other traditional metal bands too.
There are definitely Manilla Road songs that have varied song structure and don't have upbeat vocal parts that are fun to sing along to like nursery rhymes. Crystal Logic has a good balance of both sides of their music. The albums that came after it trend towards having more varied songwriting on them.
And no, you haven't attacked Manilla Road's influence. I was just making it clear in advance that you would be wrong if you attempted to do so after I stated that they were influential. Their scope of influence is more than just other traditional metal bands too.
Krow
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HamburgerBoy
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lol. The problem with them specifically is that they fill all available space with their riffs on the first album, and use them basically just following the same progression of the keys. Metal that doesn't emphasize rhythm guitar is a waste.
Manowar is simplistic, although not arranged as simplistically as Manilla Road. It'll be easier to explain when I get home and can point out specific examples, but one major difference is that at least Eric Adams doesn't usually follow the melody of the riffs. The guitars are simplistic but keep things open for his voice and silly bombastic drum fills. Then take a song like Crystal Logic's title track, where the main riff of the first half repeats probably more than 50 times, and Mark sings in lockstep with it almost the whole way. Manilla Road's songs sound like babby's first songwriting attempts.
Manilla Road would probably be in, what, the top 20 most influential trad metal bands at best? I mean that's something but most of their influence comes from all the retro bands that popped up over a decade after Manilla Road's acclaimed period. Maybe I'd give them the bronze metal with respect to USPM in terms of influence, and only if Manowar isn't considered USPM.
Elric of Melniboné
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When I mentioned Manilla Road's influence, I specifically stated that I was talking about underground bands only. Comparing them to Manowar doesn't really make sense in that case as no one is claiming that Manilla Road is more influential than major label metal acts.
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