Controversial opinions on metal

[CiG]

Which is not doom metal, just regular heavy metal. I like Witchfinder General and Electric Wizard, but every other doom metal band is a rip off of Black Sabbath. Doom metal just lacks originality.

Electric Wizard are so boring, so of course you think this about doom metal.

 

[The Ozzman]

Listen to Nyktalgia if you like Burzum.

And unrelated but Wodensthrone too if you like the whole "folk black" thing.

Thanks. I'll add that to the list of roughly 400 albums I still need to check out. I like 99% of the black metal I've heard here so there's hope.

Do you need recs?

You can send them. I hardly ever visit my main page unless I get notifications. I do everything through the phone app.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Top black metal bands based on my Last.FM stats:

Immortal
Enslaved
Primordial
Burzum
Satyricon

All less than 500 plays so I have some listening to do..

I'm too much of a faggot to log in to Last.fm right now, so here you go: Gorgoroth, Marduk, Judas Iscariot, Maniac Butcher, Carpathian Forest, Inquisition, Mayhem, Taake, Impiety (Singapore), Bestial Warlust, Bestial Holocaust, Deströyer 666, Drudkh, Abigor, Horna, Dark Funeral, Sacramentum, Toxic Holocaust, Graveland, Emperor, Dissection, Satanic Warmaster, Profanatica, Sargeist, Vulcano, Deathspell Omega, Windir, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Darkthrone, Sabbat (Japan), Tormentor, Death SS, Sarcófago, Impaled Nazarene, Poison (Germany), Antestor, 1349, Beherit, Master's Hammer, Von, Watain, and Bulldozer for some introductory acts, and of course, keep pursuing the acts you already listed. If you want or need more, just hit me up.

 

[Krow]

Don't know how controversial this is, but Von is just awful and loses any charm it might have had after a single listen.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I enjoy them, but if that's your take, I don't feel too ruffled, they're a more tertiary listening habit of mine, but I am a fan.

 

[PrincessHades]

I'm too much of a faggot to log in to Last.fm right now, so here you go: Gorgoroth, Marduk, Judas Iscariot, Maniac Butcher, Carpathian Forest, Inquisition, Mayhem, Taake, Impiety (Singapore), Bestial Warlust, Bestial Holocaust, Deströyer 666, Drudkh, Abigor, Horna, Dark Funeral, Sacramentum, Toxic Holocaust, Graveland, Emperor, Dissection, Satanic Warmaster, Profanatica, Sargeist, Vulcano, Deathspell Omega, Windir, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Darkthrone, Sabbat (Japan), Tormentor, Death SS, Sarcófago, Impaled Nazarene, Poison (Germany), Antestor, 1349, Beherit, Master's Hammer, Von, Watain, and Bulldozer for some introductory acts, and of course, keep pursuing the acts you already listed. If you want or need more, just hit me up.

Nice to see Horna and Sargeist there.

 

[PrincessHades]

You cannot honest to God sit here and tell me with songs like After Forever, Lord of This World, and Into The Void that that album isn't at least half doom metal. Sabbath's first several records are foundational to doom metal, like it or not, from the arrangements, to Ozzy's vocal stylings, to Geezer's lyrics and Tony's chord progressions, that fucker is doom metal. It fits nigh if not every sonic criterion for it.

Maybe it is, but my point is that almost all doom metal bands are complete Black Sabbath rippoffs, they don't do anything innovative. There are a select few I like, but they get pretty boring.

 

[CiG]

Don't know how controversial this is, but Von is just awful and loses any charm it might have had after a single listen.

Obliteration's cover of "Devil Pig" fully improved upon Von.

 

[The Ozzman]

I'm too much of a faggot to log in to Last.fm right now, so here you go: Gorgoroth, Marduk, Judas Iscariot, Maniac Butcher, Carpathian Forest, Inquisition, Mayhem, Taake, Impiety (Singapore), Bestial Warlust, Bestial Holocaust, Deströyer 666, Drudkh, Abigor, Horna, Dark Funeral, Sacramentum, Toxic Holocaust, Graveland, Emperor, Dissection, Satanic Warmaster, Profanatica, Sargeist, Vulcano, Deathspell Omega, Windir, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Darkthrone, Sabbat (Japan), Tormentor, Death SS, Sarcófago, Impaled Nazarene, Poison (Germany), Antestor, 1349, Beherit, Master's Hammer, Von, Watain, and Bulldozer for some introductory acts, and of course, keep pursuing the acts you already listed. If you want or need more, just hit me up.

Oh I've heard a bunch of these, but I only listed stuff with over 200 plays. Most of the others are on my list to listen to..

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Maybe it is, but my point is that almost all doom metal bands are complete Black Sabbath rippoffs, they don't do anything innovative. There are a select few I like, but they get pretty boring.

I don't disagree with that too much tbh. Until retro-thrash took over, at least, it was certainly the most self-conscious and backwards-looking metal sub-genre.

 

[CiG]

I don't think anybody has ever pretended that doom metal is about innovation, but that =/= being second tier.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Second-tier bands are often labeled so due to their lack of innovation. Why shouldn't a genre be labeled accordingly?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Oh I've heard a bunch of these, but I only listed stuff with over 200 plays. Most of the others are on my list to listen to..

Good to know, so do you need more obscure acts? Is that it?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Second-tier bands are often labeled so due to their lack of innovation. Why shouldn't a genre be labeled accordingly?

Keyword, "often". Savatage didn't exactly reinvent the wheel, but I don't think either of us would argue that it takes away from them being as legendary as they are.

 

[no country for old wainds]

black metal is probably the absolute worst sub genre for ripping off its forefathers, i'm surprised hbb isn't making this argument for me lol

 

[Baroque]

black metal is probably the absolute worst sub genre for ripping off its forefathers, i'm surprised hbb isn't making this argument for me lol

yeah, also surprised to not see a "doom metal has innovation" argument. plenty of bands in the subgenre do

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

yeah, also surprised to not see a "doom metal has innovation" argument. plenty of bands in the subgenre do

Sleep? Trouble? Cirith Ungol? Saint Vitus? The Obsessed? Candlemass? Pentagram?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Sure, obviously there are some, but doom metal has the fewest quality/original deep cuts that I'm aware of. When you do find a supposed forgotten doom metal gem, it's usually a glorified gothic rock or slowcore album anyways.

Keyword, "often". Savatage didn't exactly reinvent the wheel, but I don't think either of us would argue that it takes away from them being as legendary as they are.

Who does Savatage clone? They had a pretty distinctive sound.

black metal is probably the absolute worst sub genre for ripping off its forefathers, i'm surprised hbb isn't making this argument for me lol

Most black metal has too few riffs to even be accused of that. Like, nine out of ten times a given black metal album will have completely predictable riffs, but it won't make me think "Hey this sounds exactly like <band X>". Black metal is like an extremely pretentious self-absorbed version of the blues, doom metal is like djent.

Like, someone name three bands that are blatant ripoffs of DMDS-era Mayhem or Blaze-era Darkthrone, I'd love to hear them.

 

[no country for old wainds]

let's be honest, there arent exactly loads of major innovations in metal in general, it's mostly minor increments. most death metal could be deemed a morbid angel, death, autopsy or -ation rip off in broad terms, with BM it's usually the norwegian bands and even those pretty brazenly worshipped bathory, and etcetc.

doom definitely has a worship of sabbath at its core, but metal had moved away from sabbath when 'doom' really rose up as a movement (and then got another resurgence with rev biz), so in a way it was quite revolutionary again. i don't really think most of the iconic doom bands are any more derivative than those of other genres, which isn't to say they aren't derivative at all.

edit re hbb: nobody seems to rip off those albums so much, but loooooads rip off HLTO and TH and to a lesser extent PH, for whatever reason.

i think doom has the fewest original cuts just because there are fewer doom albums, it may be the most niche sub-genre. if we're talking ratios i don't think it's much different though really.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Didn't say Savatage's sound wasn't distinctive, but they also didn't make much of any honest to God sonic innovations.