Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
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TechnicalBarbarity
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HamburgerBoy
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- Sep 16, 2007
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Part of your viewpoint is due to the common dogma regarding metal sub-genres. Black metal is allowed to do nearly anything but if it contains a tremolo-picked riff or some shrieking or shit production, it's still black metal. Thrash metal riffs and songs back a vocalist deemed slightly too hardcore and now it's metalcore. In practice, the thing that actually links most black metal together, basically two or three riffing styles, has almost no breadth. 6/4 strum-a-strum with midi pan flute melody lines? Pagan/folk black metal. 6/4 strum-a-strum with midi Orchestra-in-a-Box(tm) backing the chord progressions? Symphonic black metal. 6/4 strum-a-strum with particularly reverb-heavy production and lyrics about suicide? DSBM. Black metal is defined largely by image, not music, so naturally its "aesthetic" will be a bit more broad than any other metal sub-genre.
Sounds like your favorite black metal bands are thrash metal bands with black metal aesthetic, so that makes your criticism especially odd.
rms
Active Member
Thanks, when I get back on my PC I'll check those out. I remember liking the assaulter when it came out years ago but didn't think it was amazing
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
lol you're right here and I think I may have forgotten to mention that. Regardless, I don't think DsO or Ildjarn are schlepping some image per say and neither could be labeled anything other than BM despite offering very different sounding material. I'm not trying to be some gatekeeper here though I admittedly listen to a lot more BM than Thrash. I guess this all just boils down to what you said considering the scope of the two genres as frameworks. It's insane to see the how many bands are retroactively being labeled as BM despite the 2nd wave having no awareness of their existence.
Ultimately, I respect and acknowledge that Thrash has mostly steered away from too many gimmicks and relies more on musical chops, but is that at the expense of stagnation or is stagnation its trademark like most modern punk music? It's clear that Thrash did indeed evolve in the 80s, but in the form of bands like Possessed and Celtic Frost. I don't think modern Thrash can be anything but revivalism and that's fine. No one is seeking newer Thrash bands in the hopes of finding anything but RIFFS anyway.
I'm also not sure why aesthetic has to equal image exactly. Sure a lot BM are steeped in juvenile lore and edgy posturing, but there are plenty of bands that set themselves apart with songwriting like Panphage vs. Malokarpatan. I think you're just cherry-picking memes about the genre without seriously considering that the sound just isn't as pigeonholed as Thrash. I'm not trying to argue that one is better than the other.
edit: im p hammered so excuse the flight of ideas
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thrash was good in the 80s, but 90% of the stuff that isn't genre-aping (modern black thrash and death thrash is pretty lit I guess), is stuff that was done by at least one 80s thrash band but exponentially better.
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
Most of this boards outright rejects anything that deviates from the old gods these days which I'm also prone to doing. It's just really hard to innovate in metal without coming off as hokey, but back in 06-07 things like DsO, Agalloch, and Alcest were are all received well (they were all p. fresh than). I don't know if metal has reached its event horizon or nothing new is really coming about.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
trivium and devildriver are better than Vektor. Am i doing it right?
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
It depends on what you mean as 'modern' but I'll just assume anything within the last 15 years will work
Not including Primordial because their albums after Spirit and Storm aren't really black metal, also not including bands like Chapel or Midnight
Beherit - Engram
Katharsis - VVorld VVithout End
Ascension - Consolamentum
Negura Bunget - OM
Sorcier Des Glaces - Moonrise in Total Darkness
HMs to:
Morrigan - Welcome to Samhain
Lunar Aurora - Andacht
Inquisition - Nefarious Dismal Orations
Cultes Des Ghoules - Haxan
Ketzer - Satan's Boundaries Unchained
Hades Archer - The Curse Over Mankind
HamburgerBoy
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Thrash evolved in many ways beyond simply paving the way for extreme metal. Megadeth, Dark Angel, Prong, Coroner, Pantera, Voivod, Anacrusis, Fear of God, Meshuggah, Stone, Nevermore, Depressive Age, Mekong Delta, etc all had plenty to say and do differently from one another. The thrash bands died largely due to lack of label support more than there simply being no further room to push things.
I don't know why you keep shitting on punk music either, which is without a doubt one of the most diverse and creative forms of rock music. Black metal itself was basically predated by hardcore like Charged GBH and post-hardcore/noise rock like Blind Idiot God and Ham. As far as I'm aware, there are still bands pushing the envelopes of punk's many children and grandchildren. Black metal wishes it had anywhere near the breadth of punk music.
Malokarpatan is retro-heavy/speed metal based on their new album, probably 15% black metal at most. Not familiar with that other one, but outside of dissonancecore stuff like DsO (which arguably has more in common with Immolation/Ulcerate/Gorguts than Burzum or Emperor), black metal hasn't shown any musical progression over the last couple decades afaik. All the essential tropes were established in Norway in the early 90s, mostly by just Mayhem themselves. You're right that the sound isn't as pigeonholed, but only because it's black metal fans that do the pigeonholing. Meshuggah writes songs with one riff? Totally not even metal, let alone thrash! Wold writes songs with one riff (or less)? Ambient noise black metal brah.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
How many modern thrash metal albums did you give a try?
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