Controversial opinions on metal

[The Ozzman]

De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas is the worst of the classic black metal albums

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

trivium and devildriver are better than Vektor. Am i doing it right?

 

[Mort Divine]

what are some of your favorite modern black metal albums?

It depends on what you mean as 'modern' but I'll just assume anything within the last 15 years will work

Not including Primordial because their albums after Spirit and Storm aren't really black metal, also not including bands like Chapel or Midnight

Beherit - Engram
Katharsis - VVorld VVithout End
Ascension - Consolamentum
Negura Bunget - OM
Sorcier Des Glaces - Moonrise in Total Darkness

HMs to:
Morrigan - Welcome to Samhain
Lunar Aurora - Andacht
Inquisition - Nefarious Dismal Orations
Cultes Des Ghoules - Haxan
Ketzer - Satan's Boundaries Unchained
Hades Archer - The Curse Over Mankind

 

[HamburgerBoy]

lol you're right here and I think I may have forgotten to mention that. Regardless, I don't think DsO or Ildjarn are schlepping some image per say and neither could be labeled anything other than BM despite offering very different sounding material. I'm not trying to be some gatekeeper here though I admittedly listen to a lot more BM than Thrash. I guess this all just boils down to what you said considering the scope of the two genres as frameworks. It's insane to see the how many bands are retroactively being labeled as BM despite the 2nd wave having no awareness of their existence.

Ultimately, I respect and acknowledge that Thrash has mostly steered away from too many gimmicks and relies more on musical chops, but is that at the expense of stagnation or is stagnation its trademark like most modern punk music? It's clear that Thrash did indeed evolve in the 80s, but in the form of bands like Possessed and Celtic Frost. I don't think modern Thrash can be anything but revivalism and that's fine. No one is seeking newer Thrash bands in the hopes of finding anything but RIFFS anyway.

I'm also not sure why aesthetic has to equal image exactly. Sure a lot BM are steeped in juvenile lore and edgy posturing, but there are plenty of bands that set themselves apart with songwriting like Panphage vs. Malokarpatan. I think you're just cherry-picking memes about the genre without seriously considering that the sound just isn't as pigeonholed as Thrash. I'm not trying to argue that one is better than the other.

edit: im p hammered so excuse the flight of ideas

Thrash evolved in many ways beyond simply paving the way for extreme metal. Megadeth, Dark Angel, Prong, Coroner, Pantera, Voivod, Anacrusis, Fear of God, Meshuggah, Stone, Nevermore, Depressive Age, Mekong Delta, etc all had plenty to say and do differently from one another. The thrash bands died largely due to lack of label support more than there simply being no further room to push things.

I don't know why you keep shitting on punk music either, which is without a doubt one of the most diverse and creative forms of rock music. Black metal itself was basically predated by hardcore like Charged GBH and post-hardcore/noise rock like Blind Idiot God and Ham. As far as I'm aware, there are still bands pushing the envelopes of punk's many children and grandchildren. Black metal wishes it had anywhere near the breadth of punk music.

Malokarpatan is retro-heavy/speed metal based on their new album, probably 15% black metal at most. Not familiar with that other one, but outside of dissonancecore stuff like DsO (which arguably has more in common with Immolation/Ulcerate/Gorguts than Burzum or Emperor), black metal hasn't shown any musical progression over the last couple decades afaik. All the essential tropes were established in Norway in the early 90s, mostly by just Mayhem themselves. You're right that the sound isn't as pigeonholed, but only because it's black metal fans that do the pigeonholing. Meshuggah writes songs with one riff? Totally not even metal, let alone thrash! Wold writes songs with one riff (or less)? Ambient noise black metal brah.

 

[CiG]

I'd rather have good nonmetal, than garbage to mediocre metal.

Haven't heard a single modern thrash album I currently like. I dabbled in Vektor for a bit but that faded fast.

How many modern thrash metal albums did you give a try?

If you fine gentlemen have the time and interest throw up 5 or so top tier modern thrash albums here or in the thrash thread.

Thrash:

1. Droid - Terrestrial Mutations
2. Bestial Invasion - Contra Omnes
3. Deathhammer - Onward to the Pits
4. Nekromantheon - Rise, Vulcan Spectre
5. Extravasion - Origins of Magma
6. Entrench - Inevitable Decay
7. Dark Design - Prey for the Future
8. Hellbringer - Awakened From The Abyss
9. Division Speed - Division Speed
10. Rupture - Rise From The Mass Graves

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

It depends on what you mean as 'modern' but I'll just assume anything within the last 15 years will work

Not including Primordial because their albums after Spirit and Storm aren't really black metal, also not including bands like Chapel or Midnight

Beherit - Engram
Katharsis - VVorld VVithout End
Ascension - Consolamentum
Negura Bunget - OM
Sorcier Des Glaces - Moonrise in Total Darkness

HMs to:
Morrigan - Welcome to Samhain
Lunar Aurora - Andacht
Inquisition - Nefarious Dismal Orations
Cultes Des Ghoules - Haxan
Ketzer - Satan's Boundaries Unchained
Hades Archer - The Curse Over Mankind

Well that's because Midnight and Chapel arent black metal bands. That being said i dont know why i typed modern in my original post. What i actualy wanted to know were your overall favorite black metal albums.

Inquisition fucking rule. OM is solid as fuck and i even somewhat enjoy that Beherit album(i think its their best work). Will need to check out some of those other bands and get back to you.

And i also have a hard time labeling Primordial as black metal, but yea they have some killer albums too.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

Thrash evolved in many ways beyond simply paving the way for extreme metal. Megadeth, Dark Angel, Prong, Coroner, Pantera, Voivod, Anacrusis, Fear of God, Meshuggah, Stone, Nevermore, Depressive Age, Mekong Delta, etc all had plenty to say and do differently from one another. The thrash bands died largely due to lack of label support more than there simply being no further room to push things.

I don't know why you keep shitting on punk music either, which is without a doubt one of the most diverse and creative forms of rock music. Black metal itself was basically predated by hardcore like Charged GBH and post-hardcore/noise rock like Blind Idiot God and Ham. As far as I'm aware, there are still bands pushing the envelopes of punk's many children and grandchildren. Black metal wishes it had anywhere near the breadth of punk music.

Malokarpatan is retro-heavy/speed metal based on their new album, probably 15% black metal at most. Not familiar with that other one, but outside of dissonancecore stuff like DsO (which arguably has more in common with Immolation/Ulcerate/Gorguts than Burzum or Emperor), black metal hasn't shown any musical progression over the last couple decades afaik. All the essential tropes were established in Norway in the early 90s, mostly by just Mayhem themselves. You're right that the sound isn't as pigeonholed, but only because it's black metal fans that do the pigeonholing. Meshuggah writes songs with one riff? Totally not even metal, let alone thrash! Wold writes songs with one riff (or less)? Ambient noise black metal brah.

Yea labels be labels mane.

I wasn't shitting on Punk music btw. I should have been more specific to bands still playing "traditional" punk a la Buzzcocks and stuff. The point I was trying to make was that bitching about how little it has developed defeats the purpose of listening to it in the first place much like a modern thrash record. Obviously I know about the slew of offshoots it spawned.

I don't see how Malokarpatan is still a BM IMO. They just have their ancestry based in bands like Root and Mortuary Drape rather than the Norwegian second wave. Also, just because DsO imported influence from outside BM doesn't mean that they still haven't furthered the genre.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

@Dazed and Brutal i think what you need to do is just admit that you misspoke and confess your love for the superior almighty boner of thrash

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Thanks for proving my point. If you restrict your concept of thrash and punk to Exodus and the Buzzcocks, thrash and punk have no creative potential. If you use an extremely wide net for black metal, it seems to have great creative potential. Got it.

 

[CiG]

Thanks for proving my point. If you restrict your concept of thrash and punk to Exodus and the Buzzcocks, thrash and punk have no creative potential. If you use an extremely wide net for black metal, it seems to have great creative potential. Got it.

Boom. Destroyed everybody in the thread.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

Thanks for proving my point. If you restrict your concept of thrash and punk to Exodus and the Buzzcocks, thrash and punk have no creative potential. If you use an extremely wide net for black metal, it seems to have great creative potential. Got it.

lol well I didn't create the arbitrary boundaries. By your logic I should just call everything Rock'n'Roll.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

@Dazed and Brutal i think what you need to do is just admit that you misspoke and confess your love for the superior almighty boner of thrash

lol I mean if I were to commit, I'd say I like sloppier Thrash bands over BM or Tech Thrash

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

"PREPARE THE LARGE BONER OF THRASH!




... GO, PREPARE AWAY"

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

Cue:

 

[HamburgerBoy]

lol well I didn't create the arbitrary boundaries. By your logic I should just call everything Rock'n'Roll.

By definition, if they're arbitrary and you're using them, you're creating them. If you can't rationalize them, your boundaries are meaningless.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

By definition, if they're arbitrary and you're using them, you're creating them. If you can't rationalize them, your boundaries are meaningless.

Woah. lol but wut bout that collective consciousness brethren

 

[CiG]

Criticising genres based on less than generous interpretations of the genre is bullshit.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

I really wasn't trying to criticize thrash in the first place. If anything I admire the little posturing that happens within its halls.

 

[Mort Divine]

Well that's because Midnight and Chapel arent black metal bands. That being said i dont know why i typed modern in my original post. What i actualy wanted to know were your overall favorite black metal albums.

Inquisition fucking rule. OM is solid as fuck and i even somewhat enjoy that Beherit album(i think its their best work). Will need to check out some of those other bands and get back to you.

And i also have a hard time labeling Primordial as black metal, but yea they have some killer albums too.

favorite BM as a whole is

Sacramentum - Far Away From the Sun
Burzum - HLTO
Darkthrone - A Blaze In The Northern Sky
Bathory - Under the Sign of the Black Mark
Dawn - Naer Solen Gar Niper For Evogher
Enslaved - Vikingligr Veldi
Primordial - Spirit the Earth Aflame
Necromantia - Scarlet Evil Witching Black
Varathron - His Majesty at the Swamp
Necromantia/Varathron - Black Arts Lead to Everlasting Sins
Samael - Worship Him
Summoning - Dol Guldur
Beherit - Engram (I'm actually in agreement with this as their best work, but drawing down the moon is still fucking brilliant)
Negura Bunget - OM
Sorcier Des Glaces - Snowland
Katharsis - VVorld VVithout End

I'm probably forgetting a few and there are others I know would make the list if I listened to more stuff more frequently, but you know can't skip my Queen Carly time

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

speaking of beherit