Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Good tunes, yeah. I fail to see how shitty vocals automatically equate to shitty bands.
Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
Good tunes, yeah. I fail to see how shitty vocals automatically equate to shitty bands.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Wat?
To this day, Black Sabbath have some of the heaviest music of all time. If we made a thread asking for the heaviest metal riffs or tracks of all time, im pretty sure more than half the people would post a BS track.
I know you guys have heard these a million times, but to say these are anything but extremely heavy would just be a lie.
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SomeGuyDude
My name is sorrow.
- Apr 26, 2011
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I've heard those more times than I can count. Like I said before, I knew the words to Iron Man before my first day in kindergarten.
I admit part of it is production, but that's kind of important since, really, all that we're talking about is fairly simple blues riffage, and there's plenty that's way goddamn heavier.
Cactus - Rumblin Man
Eyehategod - Methamphetamine
Mastodon - March of the Fire Ants
Notice how one of those predates even Sabbath, so I'm not shitting on them for being old. Just... I'm not exactly floored by the heaviness of Sabbath. More like I like how they're bluesy and sinister, but not "heavy".
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crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Can you please give us your definition of "heavy"? I've heard you say numerous times that Sabbath have some of the heaviest music of all time and honestly it makes no sense to me. Obviosuly you have something different in mind when you use the word "heavy" than most people have, so I would be interested to know what exactly it is.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
And for the record the heaviest thing I've ever heard both live and on record is Swans "The Seer".
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Thick, heavy, crushing riffs. It's not my fault that it doesn't make sense to you, if you cant hear the sheer heaviness in most of their earlier work(especially the two I posted) than you definitely need to get your ears checked.
Also, i'm pretty sure most people will tell you that they are one of the heaviest bands of all time. Shit almost every thread/poll on every site that I've come across for heaviest band, album, track have been flooded with votes or BS.
To be honest, you guys are officially the first two people I have ever come across in my life that have said Black Sabbath are not heavy ... ridiculous.
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Don't be a drama queen. I was just asking for a clarification. And I never said Black Sabbath wasn't heavy. They certainly are. I just wouldn't agree that they are some of the heaviest music of all time. In 1972? Sure. Today? No. Swans for example, actually throttles one's body to the core. It's quantitatively heavier. Same goes for acts like Neurosis, Sunn 0))) and others.
Manic Ferocity
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Contenders for modern classics:
Bolzer - Aura
Sacriphyx - The Western Front
Lvcifyre - The Calling Depths
Dead Congregation - Grave of the Archangels
It's still difficult for me to measure these up to albums like Beyond Sanctorum, The Winterlong, Blessed Are the Sick, Like an Everflowing Stream and many others.
There aren't any bands I can think of that played Transilvanian Hunger style black metal better than Darkthrone. Darkthrone-worship is usually pretty boring.
Manic Ferocity
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I've heard those more times than I can count. Like I said before, I knew the words to Iron Man before my first day in kindergarten.
I admit part of it is production, but that's kind of important since, really, all that we're talking about is fairly simple blues riffage, and there's plenty that's way goddamn heavier.
Cactus - Rumblin Man
Eyehategod - Methamphetamine
Mastodon - March of the Fire Ants
Notice how one of those predates even Sabbath, so I'm not shitting on them for being old. Just... I'm not exactly floored by the heaviness of Sabbath. More like I like how they're bluesy and sinister, but not "heavy".
Mastodon? Seriously?
How do you define "heavy"? To me, it is defined by riffs conveying a dark atmosphere, not superficial details like production values or guitar tuning. The only thing that makes Sabbath sound "dated" are those things.
Electric Wizard sucks and are a poor example of how doom metal has evolved. Listen to Reverend Bizarre.
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Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
Bullshit. Electric Wizard are a pretty direct evolution from Master of Reality and probably vol 4. Along with Sleep, they're probably why the genre of "stoner/doom" exists today. But it's an untrve genre, so you don't want to hear it.
Manic Ferocity
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Stoner doom sounds like a parody of traditional doom and I can't think of a much worse example than Dopethrone. It sounds like the band focused more on producing it to sound heavy than writing interesting riffs.
SomeGuyDude
My name is sorrow.
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Heavy to me implies weight, and those sabbath tunes are certainly evil, but not especially heavy. You might prefer them, but heavy? Meh.
And yes Mastodon. That fucking riff sounds massive even ACOUSTIC. I'm not even a big fan of the band, but that riff is on my top 10 heaviest ever.
Manic Ferocity
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But once again, that kind of comes down to production values and guitar tuning.
Black Sabbath's riffs are as massive as any metal band, really. They just aren't ridiculously tuned down like modern bands.
Black Sabbath's riffs are as massive as any metal band, really. They just aren't ridiculously tuned down like modern bands.
SomeGuyDude
My name is sorrow.
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Um. Guitar tuning basically means "what notes you play". So you're claiming that a Sabbath tune would sound just as heavy if it were transposed up an octave? LOL .
Composers have always known that lower tones give a song greater heft. That's why the Moonlight Sonata is down on the low keys and Liszt's Hungarian No 2 has those hard hits on low C#. Don't bitch to me because Sabbath didn't think of it.
Also, are you denying how insanely heavy that Cactus track is? That shit's from 1970, dude!!
Manic Ferocity
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I'm not saying that guitar tuning is what creates heaviness. I am saying that I don't know what else you might be implying when saying Black Sabbath isn't heavy. Seriously, have you listened to the first six albums? Into the Void is one of the heaviest songs of all time.
I have not listened to that Cactus song yet but I will soon. Plenty of hard rock bands started to get heavier with time but Black Sabbath turned it into something that can be distinguished from mere rock.
I have not listened to that Cactus song yet but I will soon. Plenty of hard rock bands started to get heavier with time but Black Sabbath turned it into something that can be distinguished from mere rock.
Der Morgenstern
Trailer Park Bacchus
Manic Ferocity
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That's because it is produced to sound like pure mass. The riffs are often bouncy and tacky as hell.
Kara-Shehr
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Stoner doom isn't really about writing memorable riffs just heavy ones that drown the listener. Most of the time stoner doom tries to be disorienting and trippy. I.e Electric Wizard. The riffs are important but they aren't trying to write Iron Man and Smoke on the Water part two or something.
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
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