Controversial opinions on metal

[Baroque]

I picked up Deep Purple's Machine Head per TB's advice/raving. And.. I didn't like it one bit. It sounds weak. I'm sure it was important in the development of metal, but it just doesn't hold up to actual metal. Oh well.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Weird. I thought you had told me that you already had Machine Head and a few of the other DP albums. What were you expecting anyway? But weak? lol Outside of Black Sabbath there were not many bands that were as loud and heavy in the late 60's and early 70's. It was basically them Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin ... and LZ is the only band out of the three that can be described as weak.

Pictures of Home, Smoke on the Water, Space Truckin, Highway Star .... some of the best hardrock/heavy metal songs of all time.

Lucifer's Friend was pretty heavy for their time also.

*edited for typos X2

 

[End of Glory]

Damnit TB, you can't fool around with Baroque's money

 

[Baroque]

Lol no worries about that, it was like 7 bucks. Can't hurt to have a classic album laying around anyway. Listening to it after searching through 100 thrash bands was probably a bad idea. Maybe I'll like it some other day.

 

[Baroque]

Weird. I thought you had told me that you already had Machine Head and a few of the other DP albums. What you were expecting anyway? But weak? lol Outside of Black Sabbath there were not many bands that were as loud and heavy in the early late 60's and early 70's. It was basically them Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin ... and LZ is the only band out of the three that can be described as weak.

Love Black Sabbath. I had said I already owned a few of Rainbow's albums and you suggested DP. Wasn't a bad suggestion but I think it's not as good as Rainbow or BS personally.

 

[End of Glory]

I was just joking around but 7 bucks wasn't bad.

 

[Baroque]

Controversial opinion?: Crossover is one of the purest forms of thrash.

Purest to least:

Thrash
Crossover
Tech Thrash
Thrash/Black
Thrash/Death
Thrash/Groove
Thrash/Power
any other mix

 

[Krow]

Only black thrash is real.

Easily my favorite form and yes, I consider it black metal.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Black/Thrash
Death/Thrash

.... I'm pretty sure you meant that, not the other way around.


I agree with Baroque on crossover(most of it) being one of the purest forms of thrash .. it's also one of the most generic and boring with the exception of a few bands.

i have it ...

vanilla
Crossover
Tech-thrash = Blackened Thrash = death/thrash
Power/thrash
Groove/thrash

.. and yes those are all fall under the thrash metal umbrella.

I consider it black metal.

eh, that's your mistake.

So Witchaven, Nocturnal, Assaulter etc are black metal bands?

LOL @ anyone trying to say black/blackened THRASH isn't THRASH. I mean honestly, can you guys be any more fucking stupid?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't really get purity in this context. Are black/thrash or death/thrash more pure because they directly came out of thrash, vs power/thrash metal which was already a thing to some extent?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Well imo most blackened thrash and death/thrash bands are much "thrashier" than most(not all) power/thrash bands. But whatever, they're all unquestionably thrash ... that's for sure.

most groovy thrash sucks balls though.

 

[Baroque]

I don't really get purity in this context. Are black/thrash or death/thrash more pure because they directly came out of thrash, vs power/thrash metal which was already a thing to some extent?

I think black/thrash and death/thrash achieve the essence of the sound of pure thrash more than power/thrash does.

I suppose you could make the argument that the original thrash sound was a hybrid of trad/power and punk, with crossover leaning more towards the punk side and vanilla thrash leaning more toward the trad/power side. But vocal styles quickly turned away from trad/power in large part.

I think the thrash mindset/sound lends itself more to harsher vocals than clean singing though.

Black/thrash is also faster paced and more consistently keeps the 'thrash beat' going than does power/thrash.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I suppose you could make the argument that the original thrash sound was a hybrid of trad/power

Thrash outdates power metal bro.

I think what you meant was speed/trad metal.

Also Thrash was heavily influenced by punk. And crossover wasn't even a thing till the mid 80's.

Also, the vocals on the earliest thrash metal releases did not sound anything like what we heard from most trad bands. So i dont know how they "turned away". If anything most of the trad bands tried to sound like thrash bands after thrash blew up. You have a lot of shit twisted up my man.

 

[Baroque]

Only black thrash is real.

Easily my favorite form and yes, I consider it black metal.

Black/thrash is excellent but you're missing out on like 90% of thrash's best bands if you stick only to that. Can you explain how death/thrash is not extreme or real enough for you?

 

[Baroque]

Thrash outdates power metal bro.

I suppose. I consider some of Iron Maiden's material and Judas Priest's material power metal. Also some of Dio's.

I think what you meant was speed/trad metal.

Yeah this is probably a better way to say it in any case.

Also Thrash was heavily influenced by punk. And crossover wasn't even a thing till the mid 80's.

Yeah what do you consider the first major Crossover album? I'd say Stormtroopers of Death in 1985. There were a lot of other thrash bands before them with punk influenced sounds though. Anyway thrash itself didn't really kick off until like 1983 (a few demos and such in '82) so Crossover wasn't too far behind.

[EDIT] D.R.I. and The Exploited both released music in '83.

most groovy thrash sucks balls though.

Absolutely.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Im not talking mainstream, but Thrash was fucking sizzling in California by 83 bro. Even though they were mostly recording demos, thrash was fucking HUGE in the early 80's. And that's before Kill Em All was released.

I suppose. I consider some of Iron Maiden's material and Judas Priest's material power metal.

Nah, just trad/nwobhm right there. And their albums that are closer to sounding like PM came much later on, not the early 80's.

what do you consider the first major Crossover album?

I'd say Cryptic Slaughter, SOD and DRI are amongst the first crossover thrash bands.

 

[Baroque]

Also, the vocals on the earliest thrash metal releases did not sound anything like what we heard from most trad bands. So i dont know how they "turned away".

In particular I was thinking of James' vocals on No Life Til Leather, sounded a lot more like trad vocals than his later thrash vocals.

Also Metallica's demo in '82 named Power Metal

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

lol yes but that name has nothing to do with the subgenre. Power metal did not exist in 82. They also re-recorded and changed the name of that demo a month or two later.

 

[Baroque]

Controversial opinion: I think the rise of thrash in the 80's, 'crash' of thrash in the mid 90's, and the renewal of thrash in the mid 00's, had a lot to do with the political climate in the U.S. during those years.

In general at least the politically driven side of thrash is fairly liberal and anti-war I think.

Thrash started in about '81 or '82 around the same time Reagan took office.
Thrash essentially 'crashed' in 1993, the same year Clinton took office.
Thrash came back in about 2003, the same year Bush jr. started the Iraq war version 2.0 after 9/11.

 

[ProphetofHatred]

Weird. I thought you had told me that you already had Machine Head and a few of the other DP albums. What were you expecting anyway? But weak? lol Outside of Black Sabbath there were not many bands that were as loud and heavy in the late 60's and early 70's. It was basically them Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin ... and LZ is the only band out of the three that can be described as weak.

Pictures of Home, Smoke on the Water, Space Truckin, Highway Star .... some of the best hardrock/heavy metal songs of all time.

Lucifer's Friend was pretty heavy for their time also.

*edited for typos X2

Only them? What about Dust, Cactus, Leaf Hound, Atomic Rooster, Fresh Blueberry Pancake, Uriah Heep, Paladin, Night Sun, etc