Controversial opinions on metal

[CiG]

I don't try try to justify it as a general practice, but I do think with OOP material is an exception. The dumpster-diving analogy that ID made was a valid one. The fact that Elric rebutted that analogy by implying that taking a TV that someone else threw away still counts as stealing crosses over into Lawful Stupid territory.

I don't see it as an exception, but my capacity for sympathising with illegal downloading definitely increases in that scenario.
I want Legend's From The Fjords so badly...

 

[Baroque]

One can download out of print material and then purchase it when it is reprinted.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I usually end up buying anything i like. Even if i have to wait a good while.

 

[The Butt]

Why would anyone buy a smartphone to only text and call, again that defeats the purpose.

smartphone

Find recent numbers that show only a minority of Americans use data, oh nvm, you can't.

I'm just saying, not every smartphone user has data. This is fact and can't be refuted.

And even if it were not fact, and everyone did have data, 32% is a significant enough of a margin to make your point bad.

 

[CiG]

I'm patient in the extreme, no point whining too much about an OOP release until you have everything in your collection. There is so much music out there...

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I don't try try to justify it as a general practice, but I do think with OOP material is an exception. The dumpster-diving analogy that ID made was a valid one. The fact that Elric rebutted that analogy by implying that taking a TV that someone else threw away still counts as stealing crosses over into Lawful Stupid territory.

I actually said that I don't want the TV because I already have enough TVs for my home. Just like I don't need to download music because I own enough and can buy more if I want it. Thanks for your time though.

Bravo to VP!

You can go around the whole IP address thing pretty easily if you have a celly.

I'm pretty sure it's very simple to identify the difference between a mobile IP address and the IP address of your home internet connection. You should even be able to see a general location and the name of the internet host.

Anonymous proxy host names also look pretty dissimilar to normal internet addresses as far as I recall.

So I'm not sure why this seems so challenging, but I also don't think that I've seen a moderator since I joined this site.

 

[EternalMetal]

The label makes money in order to pay for the band's studio time, the money a band makes is usually from merch and shows.

Would they not pay for the studio time if they didnt sell any albums? If I were a musician, my first goal would be to break even on the ability to make my own music in a recording studio and get some hard copies.

I'm patient in the extreme, no point whining too much about an OOP release until you have everything in your collection. There is so much music out there...

What is wrong with wanting the OOP release then? Maybe ive heard it before, it's by an artist that I already own more readily available stuff from, or at the very least maybe someone I know has told me that id like it. This has nothing to do with wanting some goddamn obscure piece of music ive never heard before, it's about the desire of obtaining a good listening copy of something that I already know I like. Other good music be damned.

 

[Baroque]

I'm just saying, not every smartphone user has data. This is fact and can't be refuted.

And even if it were not fact, and everyone did have data, 32% is a significant enough of a margin to make your point bad.

Just looked it up, 90% of smartphone owners use the Internet on their phone. .68*.9=.61 so 61% of Americans use data. Thus the majority of Americans have access to YouTube on mobile. You don't, heh

 

[CiG]

Would they not pay for the studio time if they didnt sell any albums? If I were a musician, my first goal would be to break even on the ability to make my own music in a recording studio and get some hard copies.

If the label makes no money at all on album sales, they'll likely not offer the band a contract. Many underground labels operate at a loss for most of their existence.

What is wrong with wanting the OOP release then? Maybe ive heard it before, it's by an artist that I already own more readily available stuff from, or at the very least maybe someone I know has told me that id like it. This has nothing to do with wanting some goddamn obscure piece of music ive never heard before, it's about the desire of obtaining a good listening copy of something that I already know I like. Other good music be damned.

There's nothing wrong with wanting it at all. I'm just talking about my logic with OOP releases.

 

[The Butt]

Just looked it up, 90% of smartphone owners use the Internet on their phone. .68*.9=.61 so 61% of Americans use data. Thus the majority of Americans have access to YouTube on mobile. You don't, heh

Your point was that there wasn't a difference between using Youtube and listening multiple times, and downloading a song to listen multiple times. I proved that was certifiably false.

You then went on to post a lot of stats that didn't even end up really supporting your claim anyways; you can't claim the two things are the same when 39% of Americans would disagree with you.

You can feel free to joke about my cell phone (lol) all you like. Go for it, I do the same sometimes too. But bottom line is, you were wrong and made a shit point. Lmao. Try to accept it gracefully.

 

[EternalMetal]

If the label makes no money at all on album sales, they'll likely not offer the band a contract. Many underground labels operate at a loss for most of their existence.

What I was getting at is that the band is getting kickbacks for their studio costs from album sales, so even if a profit isnt made, the band is still seeing your money. As for the labels knowing whether they will make a profit or not, id imagine that this isnt exactly known beforehand. Shitty bands not being offered contracts is fine by me tbh.

There's nothing wrong with wanting it at all. I'm just talking about my logic with OOP releases.

You mean the sheer legality of it, or that it is unethical? It's probably illegal, but I dont think there are ethical ramifications that should be worried about.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

One can download out of print material and then purchase it when it is reprinted.

I actually said that I don't want the TV because I already have enough TVs for my home. Just like I don't need to download music because I own enough and can buy more if I want it. Thanks for your time though.

Your exact words, bold for emphasis:

I don't want it. I already own two large 4K resolution flat screen TVs and I don't have anywhere to put a third one. It also doesn't belong to me.

Even if it was just an afterthought, I don't see how saying "it doesn't belong to me" would not imply that you consider dumpster-diving to be theft.

 

[Baroque]

Your point was that there wasn't a difference between using Youtube and listening multiple times, and downloading a song to listen multiple times. I proved that was certifiably false.

You then went on to post a lot of stats that didn't even end up really supporting your claim anyways; you can't claim the two things are the same when 39% of Americans would disagree with you.

You can feel free to joke about my cell phone (lol) all you like. Go for it, I do the same sometimes too. But bottom line is, you were wrong and made a shit point. Lmao. Try to accept it gracefully.

Go back and re read my point, I was clearly talking about PCs since I mentioned hard drives and modems. You're the one that brought up your cell phone's lack of data which you assumed was the norm. To which I loled and proved you wrong that you're actually in the minority.

 

[CiG]

What I was getting at is that the band is getting kickbacks for their studio costs from album sales, so even if a profit isnt made, the band is still seeing your money. As for the labels knowing whether they will make a profit or not, id imagine that this isnt exactly known beforehand. Shitty bands not being offered contracts is fine by me tbh.

It's not a matter of quality. Example: it's the 80's and downloading is as common as it is today, if everybody downloaded Slowly We Rot we would likely not see Cause Of Death follow, or we would see it follow with a different, smaller label with a smaller studio budget, regardless of quality.

Bands for the most part don't get profit from album sales until they move up into the mass consumer market of mainstream music.

You mean the sheer legality of it, or that it is unethical? It's probably illegal, but I dont think there are ethical ramifications that should be worried about.

I actually don't care so much about the legality of it, I care about the ethics. It feels wrong.

 

[Baroque]

It's not a matter of quality. Example: it's the 80's and downloading is as common as it is today, if everybody downloaded Slowly We Rot we would likely not see Cause Of Death follow, or we would see it follow with a different, smaller label with a smaller studio budget, regardless of quality.

Bands for the most part don't get profit from album sales until they move up into the mass consumer market of mainstream music.



I actually don't care so much about the legality of it, I care about the ethics. It feels wrong.

Counterpoint is that we also might not have had Cause of Death without the tape trading scene popularizing the band among metalheads. Illegal listening be it YouTube, downloading or cassettes is important to a band's exposure. Many young bands realize this and give away their first album free, or stream albums.

 

[CiG]

That's a good point which I fully accept, but those tape trading scenes didn't trade illegally dubbed albums but rather self-released demos and rehearsals. So it doesn't quite follow.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... we used to trade plenty of dubbed tapes back in the days dude

 

[Baroque]

That's a good point which I fully accept, but those tape trading scenes didn't trade illegally dubbed albums but rather self-released demos and rehearsals. So it doesn't quite follow.

Sure, trading tapes or trading songs on napster, what's the difference? Either way the prior owner is likely to keep a copy for themselves, duplicating tapes was rampant

 

[MrTagoMago]

Bob Dylan is more metal than Madonna.

 

[Baroque]

... we used to trade plenty of dubbed tapes back in the days dude

Yeah definitely