Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
My mind has been blown a little bit, I was always under the impression viking metal was, in fact, that black metal crap. Pretty much every song listed by Mort was good... I do think I need to look into this farther.
Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
- Start date
My mind has been blown a little bit, I was always under the impression viking metal was, in fact, that black metal crap. Pretty much every song listed by Mort was good... I do think I need to look into this farther.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Cythraul
Active Member
- Dec 10, 2003
- 6,755
- 133
- 63
I don't think doom metal influence is a defining trait of viking metal. It may be that they both draw from a common source of influence (mid-paced/slower heavy metal) but that's simply a matter of common influence rather than of direct influence from doom metal. I would still make a distinction between viking metal proper and viking/doom. The reason that you see quite a few viking/doom bands is partly that the range of tempos that viking bands utilize is ripe for incorporating doom elements (there are further reasons why there are specifically viking/doom bands as opposed to, say, viking/sludge bands, but let's ignore that for the moment.) But I hear no discernible doom influence in, say, Moonsorrow (they're viking metal, right?) What I hear is Hammerheart influence which, by implication, means Manowar influence. I don't hear any non-trivial similarity to Candlemass, for instance.
Actually, I've been listening to Hail to England and Hammerheart a lot lately. It's probably not a coincidence that both of those albums have an attraction for me right now; the similarities are pretty obvious. To call viking-era Bathory a Manowar clone seems like a bit of stretch to me though (and anyway, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions for music X to be a clone of music Y? I do not know.) And even if it were a clone, I wouldn't call it bad. I find most of the songwriting on Hammerheart to be both exquisite and moving.
Actually, I've been listening to Hail to England and Hammerheart a lot lately. It's probably not a coincidence that both of those albums have an attraction for me right now; the similarities are pretty obvious. To call viking-era Bathory a Manowar clone seems like a bit of stretch to me though (and anyway, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions for music X to be a clone of music Y? I do not know.) And even if it were a clone, I wouldn't call it bad. I find most of the songwriting on Hammerheart to be both exquisite and moving.
Episteme
Member
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
- 14,270
- 770
- 113
SomeGuyDude
My name is sorrow.
- Apr 26, 2011
- 2,159
- 1
- 36
LOL, you should hop on YouTube or drummer forums for when people start crying about drummers using triggers. It's unbelievable. Inferno gets raked over the fucking coals constantly because of it. Like somehow Evangelion would kick MORE ass if he played the pedals differently.
Saparmurat_Niyazov
Member
hurr durr power metal should contain a majority clean vocals. Otherwise, Emperor's last 2 albums could be classified as such.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I suppose this might be a better way to categorize it; but I absolutely think that the slower tempo is indicative of a viking subgenre. Furthermore, I think most bands that do the viking/doom crossover are better than viking metal bands who try to go a different route. However, while I agree you don't hear much "doom" influence in a band like Moonsorrow, I think the slower, rhythmic guitar style can be likened to some form of doom style.
Also, I've re-listened to Vansinnesvisor tonight, and I revise my previous statement about it incorporating a "full" doom influence. It uses some doom influence, but nothing like Ereb Altor or Doomsword.
Kara-Shehr
Member
- Sep 2, 2010
- 3,233
- 4
- 38
I've actually grown to prefer Behemoth's polished sound. One of the few bands that can make triggers sound good. I would use them as an example for triggers well done. An example of triggered drums used poorly would be a band like Dark Funeral or Belphegor.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Since when did vocals determine what genre something is?
There is zero death metal influence in bands like Wintersun, Children of Bodom, Kalmah, etc.
They are purely power metal regardless of vocal situations.
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
Genesis is boring as fuck. Ruination on the other hand, isn't bad at all.
SMD
Like, yeah, Nattens Madrigal has a really trebly production, but I couldn't picture the album any other way.
They are. What else would they be... melodic death metal? Some variation of blackened metal? Get the fuck out of my office. Anybody calling them death or black metal (or claiming they have any trace of said genres) is a fag, and probably suffers from a mental deficiency. QED.
No, that's really fucking stupid. I'm not even gonna bother, since Mort has already elaborated my stance in a pretty concise and clear fashion.
Bands like Wintersun, early Bodom, Kalmah, etc, all these pseudo-death metal "melodeath" bands, are just power metal with harsh vocals. "Extreme power metal", if you will. End topic.
Yes power metal's main criteria is the prominence of clean vocals. This is a fact. Wintersun sounds identical to many post black or death bands, that by Mort Divine's criteria, should be classified as power metal, which is ridiculous. Just because a band has speed and uses some keys or synth in their music doesn't make them power metal (see the Emperor reference above).
Wow that's a remarkable post. So we must now comb through the entire catalog of post death/black metal bands and re classify them as power metal if they play any type of extreme metal. You're a fucking dolt. Kalmah as power metal. hahaha I can't even say it out loud without laughing.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
what in the fuck
vocals do not determine shit, they are typically a specific way but they are in no way determiners of anything. would a death metal band without growls suddenly become not death metal? nope. didn't think so.
music is determined by the fucking MUSIC being played
vocals do not determine shit, they are typically a specific way but they are in no way determiners of anything. would a death metal band without growls suddenly become not death metal? nope. didn't think so.
music is determined by the fucking MUSIC being played
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
Agree with everything Mort divine said ... the actual music is what the genre should be determined by ... iv never listened to Kalmah, so i cant comment on them, but children of bodom and Wintersun clearly are not death metal bands.
i find it funny that some people would even consider children of bodom dm.
i find it funny that some people would even consider children of bodom dm.
No, you actually couldn't be more wrong, even if you tried. Vocal style has no bearing on the genre of music being played.
And musically, Wintersun is power metal; the riffage, is power metal riffage. Obviously you haven't actually listened to the Wintersun S/T in full, because anybody with working ears, can tell that it is power metal with harsh vocals (aka extreme power metal).
You say it sounds identical to "post black or death"? How many drugs are you on right now, son? Listen to the opening track. Listen to Sleeping Stars. Listen to Starchild. Anybody who could say those are anything other than power metal, is either retarded, or lacks functioning ears. You're trying to argue a topic that is not open for debate.
This doesn't even make any sense... the fuck? So, you're saying that bands like Children of Bodom, Kalmah, and other bands in this spectrum... are death metal?
Again, I say to thee: "Get the fuck out of my office."
Man you are very, very confused. You're not a deep thinker, either. Check it out. In the institution of music, of course the music being played determines certain genres. Rock is rock, classical is classical, jazz is jazz right? But within these genres - heavy metal is the genre we deal with- the vocal delivery is one of the main criteria for distinguishing these sub genres, especially death metal and power metal. Take away the death metal growls from a death metal band, as you suggested, and replace them with clean vocals and there is NO WAY you can call said band death metal. Think about it. Put clean vocals over a Nile song and tell me they're a death metla band. You simpy cannot, and if you don't see why this is, then you don't. But I don't get how this is hard to understand. You've clearly been listening to music in general and metal specifically for all of 4 years maybe. Or maybe the problem is you're not listening to enough metal since you like all that pop shit.
Similar threads
