Cool Nordström Interview
- Thread starter Lasse Lammert
- Start date
very easy....
if you buy cubase4 you automatically have the licenses for sx3 as well.
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
Cheers Lasse, that's definitely something I'll be doing in the very very near future!
I don't actuallt enjoy having any cracked software, and I didn't know I could do that!
So cheers agaiN!
I don't actuallt enjoy having any cracked software, and I didn't know I could do that!
So cheers agaiN!
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
This is stupid. You're likening old Slayer and Metallica to "Bedroom" recordings???!! WTF man? Those albums were done on top notch equipment and sound way, way better than bedroom recordings today. Are you crazy? You just disqualified yourself.
And you are wrong again -- untrained ears can still hear a difference between bedroom recordings and proper recordings. It's a little subconscious but anyone can hear it, but they'll probably attribute the difference to the music, not the production.
My point is that people wanna hear songs, not production. But thanks for clarifying that this old stuff wasn't recorded in a bedroom.
Still, you can get a close to pro sound out of a bedroom studio. And the few percent it comes short will not be missed by most people.
...untrained ears. Funny enough, when I ask people about the production of fuckin Death Magnetic I usually get to hear how good it is. Same with the new Slayer.
Josh Burgess
Member
Let's be real here.
Guitars = close mic'd, no room.
Bass = often just a DI or DI mixed with an amp sim.
Vocals = often something like an SM7B, which rejects room sound.... and many people will use digital algorithms instead of "real" verb, if they use verb at all. many just use delays.
Drums = the only instrument that really requires a nice acoustic space to shine.... but even that can be made up for with convolution reverbs that captured real spaces. Drums benefit more from a nice nice room (studio environment) than all other instruments in a modern metal band. With all the quantizing and sample replacement going on, you might as well program your drums if you don't have the means to record them well. Arguably the hardest part for a "bedroom recording" is the overheads, but many people are able to make cymbals from sample collections work without anyone knowing better.
A studio is no longer required to get great recordings. If a musician is willing to invest in the right gear and learn how to use it, not only can they match (or atleast come close to) what high end studios are putting out, they now own all that gear and knowledge, allowing them to put out new music whenever creativity strikes. This is why so many people are looking to do it themselves, and I think many people are perfectly capable of it if they just put the time in and can come up with the money for quality gear. It wasn't possible not all that long ago, but now it is very much a reality.
It's definitely a lot of pressure for a single person to be the player, songwriter, recording engineer, mixer, mastering engineer, and producer all in one. but if you can stick with it, there are obviously a ton of benefits...
Guitars = close mic'd, no room.
Bass = often just a DI or DI mixed with an amp sim.
Vocals = often something like an SM7B, which rejects room sound.... and many people will use digital algorithms instead of "real" verb, if they use verb at all. many just use delays.
Drums = the only instrument that really requires a nice acoustic space to shine.... but even that can be made up for with convolution reverbs that captured real spaces. Drums benefit more from a nice nice room (studio environment) than all other instruments in a modern metal band. With all the quantizing and sample replacement going on, you might as well program your drums if you don't have the means to record them well. Arguably the hardest part for a "bedroom recording" is the overheads, but many people are able to make cymbals from sample collections work without anyone knowing better.
A studio is no longer required to get great recordings. If a musician is willing to invest in the right gear and learn how to use it, not only can they match (or atleast come close to) what high end studios are putting out, they now own all that gear and knowledge, allowing them to put out new music whenever creativity strikes. This is why so many people are looking to do it themselves, and I think many people are perfectly capable of it if they just put the time in and can come up with the money for quality gear. It wasn't possible not all that long ago, but now it is very much a reality.
It's definitely a lot of pressure for a single person to be the player, songwriter, recording engineer, mixer, mastering engineer, and producer all in one. but if you can stick with it, there are obviously a ton of benefits...
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
- 4,353
- 0
- 36
No, you can't get close to a pro sound in the "Bedroom" (Bedroom being the typical ITB, no room treatment environment).
Ever since Ermz brought it up fairly recently, I've been listening to Stabbing the Drama more and more and more.
On top of that, some CLA mixes, like Brand New Eyes by Paramore.
Having listened to both albums at least 100 times in the last month and a half or so to get them extremely familiar in my memory and also A/Bing them against ITB, "Bedroom" mixes, it should be blatantly clear to anyone the bedroom mixes aren't even REMOTELY close to the pro stuff.
Yeah, ITB bedroom can sound "good", and polished and clean, but you're just kidding yourself if you think a bedroom mix can breathe and push like the best pro mixes done in a proper studio and have that same kind of air those mixes do.
While initially some ITB bedroom mixes sound great when not referenced to other mixes, when I put them up against the likes of Brand New Eyes, they sound like fucking demos in comparison.
Note the word initially. Once you give them repeated listens, just over and over again, once you can start to get the details into your memory, that's when you'll be able to hear how mediocre ITB bedroom sounds compared to pro stuff.
And it doesn't matter about the tune, because we are NOT talking about fucking tunes here, we are talking about the sonic aspects of production..
And this, pisses me off "And the few percent it comes short will not be missed by most people"
Are you aware of what happens with this attitude, this catering to the lowest common denominator attitude?
If we get to a point where we accept "It sounds pretty good, not quite as good as pro, but who cares, because people like it", then the next time around, we will hear those recordings and think "Well, as good as that sounded, no one will mind if it isn't quite as good".
And the cycle keeps repeating until the production quality drops and drops until it is absolutely fucking shit.
And then you know what happens?
The pros of today are out of the business.
This includes guys like ANDY SNEAP.
So how fucking dare you come in here and say things like that which are to the detriment of hard working professionals like Sneap, Glenn Frickers etc
I may be a shitty "ITB bedroom engineer" myself, but currently I only do it for my own enjoyment for making my own projects sound better and I certainly am not in any position to start undercutting the pros by offering services to mix commercial releases with my sub par abilities and parading myself as some kind of pro who can offer "NEARLY commercial level mixes".
Whatever. Tell me that again in 5 years. I shall have a good laugh.
Wow! YOU got very quick ears! What do you reckon how many listens Joe Average needs to realise that? A thousand?
See above.
Tough shit, baby. I know. But it's got precious little to do with me. It's called "the market".
Actually I could as well ask you how you dare producing your music yourself to a sub-standard level, as you say, instead of paying a hard-working professional? Is that not to their detriment? Do I smell hypocrisy? Did you actually use the part between your well functioning ears when you wrote that?
Force666
Member
- Sep 12, 2007
- 1,096
- 0
- 36
Yeah, I have to agree. Using CLA as a context doesn't make sense. That's like saying if you can't play basketball as good as Michael Jordan, you don't even belong on the court. Some people extremely excel at what they do. The simple fact is CLA could make a way better recording in your studio than you could make in his. It's the experience that counts first and foremost, second the space and enviroment, and thirdly the gear. (Of course this is neglecting the actual MUSIC, which this is all about to begin with) and then there's the inherent talent of the engineer, which is it's own anomally.
And many of these "semi-pro" bedroom recordings do rival old school stuff (i.e. Reign In Blood, Show No Mercy, Kill Em All, etc.) in terms of sonic fidelity. That's just technology at work. Nothing anyone can do about it.
And many of these "semi-pro" bedroom recordings do rival old school stuff (i.e. Reign In Blood, Show No Mercy, Kill Em All, etc.) in terms of sonic fidelity. That's just technology at work. Nothing anyone can do about it.
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
- 4,353
- 0
- 36
I would go so far to say that many of today's bedroom ITB recordings sound WAY better than old Metallica. In fact purely for the ridiculously mid scooped guitars alone on Kill 'Em All, Master of Puppets and AJFA (and on top of that, an almost complete absence of bass guitar) makes me hate the sound, since there are no mids in the guitar to push things along. All the guitar are doing is sorta sitting in the mix, rather than actually complimenting the mix AND sitting in the mix in the case of today's great, warmer, more mid rangey guitars compared to the old Metallica guitar sound.
This isn't even taking into account the really shitty drum sounds etc of those records (IMO of course, others can feel free to differ).
And come on Force666, you know what I mean by bedroom engineer.
Even if Sneap is doing it "in a bedroom" obviously he is still not a bedroom engineer in the sense of doing it with 200 dollar monitoring speakers and in the worst acoustic environments possible.
This isn't even taking into account the really shitty drum sounds etc of those records (IMO of course, others can feel free to differ).
And come on Force666, you know what I mean by bedroom engineer.
Even if Sneap is doing it "in a bedroom" obviously he is still not a bedroom engineer in the sense of doing it with 200 dollar monitoring speakers and in the worst acoustic environments possible.
This is where the argument "Good music, over good production." comes in. I can appreciate the great production of the Black album, but god I can't listen to it at all. Ride the Lightening is full of reverb everywhere, making it a little tough to get used to. Once I looked past it though, god damn. I will take their shitty production with good songs ANY day.
old metallica etc production is not shitty, it's just outdated (if that, if MoP was mastered like 10db louder it would sound pretty modern i guess 
).
you got to keep in mind, by the time metallica slayer megadeth etc released their first albums people still thought that black sabbath was like the heaviest band known to mankind - get my point? that sound was groundbreaking back then!
sonically, lots of modern albums are "better"....take STD soilwork as an example. however, with all the new technology available nowadays they better should be, don't you think?
the thing is, you can still put on MoP or justice or raining blood or whatever and it won't sound atrocious even by modern standards. i'm not sure we'll be able to say that about lots of the current stuff by the time it's 25 years old. and especially not about bedroom recordings.
). you got to keep in mind, by the time metallica slayer megadeth etc released their first albums people still thought that black sabbath was like the heaviest band known to mankind - get my point? that sound was groundbreaking back then!
sonically, lots of modern albums are "better"....take STD soilwork as an example. however, with all the new technology available nowadays they better should be, don't you think?
the thing is, you can still put on MoP or justice or raining blood or whatever and it won't sound atrocious even by modern standards. i'm not sure we'll be able to say that about lots of the current stuff by the time it's 25 years old. and especially not about bedroom recordings.
Force666
Member
- Sep 12, 2007
- 1,096
- 0
- 36
EXACTLY! And it's also a great point to mention, that they didn't know HOW to record music like that generally yet.
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
- 2,542
- 0
- 36
Hmmm - not sure what the "HOW to" statement means, but just because Metallica, Slayer, or Megadeth albums sounded a little lo-fi to call it something does not mean that there were not albums coming out back then that sounded big, or did not have stellar production.
I can think of a bunch of metal albums that do not sound like Black Sabbath that have better production than the early to mid 80's releases from Metallica, Slayer, and Megadeth. Someone mentioned Accept's "Restless and Wild" in another thread and that's a great example of a great sounding album from 1982 which was before the release of "Ride the Lightning" 1984, "Master of Puppets" 1986, 'Peace Sells" 1986. While I think they are all great albums as far as songs go, I'm not sure that it was a lack of knowledge that produced the sounds we hear on those albums.
I suspect that the quality of the albums has more to do with the budgets they had and the people they chose than what the technology or knowledge of the time was. Perhaps I'm confused as to the point you are trying to make, but the knowledge was there.
Force666
Member
- Sep 12, 2007
- 1,096
- 0
- 36
The knowledge was there for recording. But not THESE bands and type of music at the time.
If a band showed up at your studio, playing some kind of music that you had never heard before, would you instantly know "how" to record it? (Record in this case, means tones, techniques, etc.)
It's easy to do now, because all *most* of us are doing, is replicating something that's already been done. Where at the time, this was all a new style of music. It takes time to develop something like that.
If a band showed up at your studio, playing some kind of music that you had never heard before, would you instantly know "how" to record it? (Record in this case, means tones, techniques, etc.)
It's easy to do now, because all *most* of us are doing, is replicating something that's already been done. Where at the time, this was all a new style of music. It takes time to develop something like that.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
You go girl!
I get your point. BUT, isn't Andy recording the new Exodus in a BEDROOM? So I think your point just got smoked. It's the man behind the ITB that makes the recording.
Were the drums recorded in a bedroom? Is he mixing it in a bedroom? Nay my friend.
Yeah, admittedly, thrash was a pretty different ballgame than classic or hair metal (faster, heavier, double bassier, etc.
)
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
- 2,542
- 0
- 36
Yeah, admittedly, thrash was a pretty different ballgame than classic or hair metal (faster, heavier, double bassier, etc.
I don't know - pretty thrashy, pretty double bassy
Probably why Accept is one of Andy's favorites.
Last edited by a moderator:
Force666
Member
- Sep 12, 2007
- 1,096
- 0
- 36
Thrashy? yes. Recorded halfway around the world by somebody else? yes. Sounds like shit? yes.
Sorry but Kill Em All sounds way better as far as fidelity goes.
Funnily enough, Michael Wagener tracked and mixed that album. (Accept - Restless and Wild)
Sorry but Kill Em All sounds way better as far as fidelity goes.
Funnily enough, Michael Wagener tracked and mixed that album. (Accept - Restless and Wild)
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
