COP KILLERS

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

What's your take on this. In the United States, it's an automatic death sentence for killing a police officer.....as in most countires. While here in Canada, it means life imprisonment. Or parole after 20-25 years.

Personally, I believe in the Death Penalty. Whether it's by lethal injection, the electric chair, the gas chamber, the guillotine, or public beheading.....if you do the crime, you do the time. Or you get legally wacked. Case closed.

Some crimes, such as rape and child molestation, are getting harsher penalties than murder.....especially here in Canada. It's almost gotten to the point where taking a life will get you two years less a day in some cases. Very seldom will you get the maximum sentence due to legal technicalities.

How do you feel? As a Canadian, I say bring back the death penalty in certain cases. Especially for cop killing. But if you drink and drive and take a life, or you rape a child.....you better get used to that 8 X 4 cell for the rest of your life. In these cases, they'll almost want to be sentenced to death row. Just my opinion.

 

[AsModEe]

well, look at the conservative talking. My point is that punishing someone by letting him live in a cell and his conscience for the rest of his life is a lot more effective than just killing him. When you rape someone, you screw that persons life for the rest of her time and some consider it worse than simply being dead. Death penalty is only a way to reduce the number of people in prisons imo.

 

[Lord Foul]

From what I have read, it seems that the death penalty has little to no deterrent effect on capital crimes. If it does not serve to prevent crime, and it surely cannot be a tool for rehabilitation (perhaps in some Hindu worldview it could be, eh? Do a few years as a lower life form and then come back and try human again), then it can only be a form of punishment. The question, then, is whether or not the death penalty is a more effective form of punishment than life in prison.

I know little about prison, but I do have this tidbit of information. There is a test called the PCL-R that is used to diagnose people as having a psychopathic/sociopathic personality disorder. The average score on this test in control populations is 5; in maximum security prisons the average score is 22. I think I might prefer death to life in a place inhabited by people who do not comprehend that other people have thoughts and feelings.

 

[derek]

The death penalty is essentially a revenge killing, and as Plato says (paraphrasing) that is lashing out like an animal, and not befitting of creatures like ourselves.

I sometimes watch the news and have gut feelings that some people deserve to be hung or put to death, but at the same time I find the idea somewhat repulsive. I'm not sure trading death for death is the way forward.

I agree that the justice system in in decay as criminals almost seem to be let off lightly, but its a fallacy to go from there to endorsing the death penalty.

 

[Freanan]

Hm, i have no moral problems with death penalty...
But i agree with those who say that killing somebody is not as bad as fucking somebody up for the rest of his or her life. I also can't see why killing a cop is any worse then killing anybody else.

On the effectivity of death penalty - well it might be usefull if jails are too full or something but in general it makes more sense to have delinquents do work that noone else wants to do.
(But in the end I think the most natural thing would be to allow the use of the cathartic power of blood vengeance (half-serious remark))

 

[polarity3]

well, look at the conservative talking. My point is that punishing someone by letting him live in a cell and his conscience for the rest of his life is a lot more effective than just killing him.

"effective" meaning what exactly? either way it's not like they're going to see the outside world again

 

[speed]

In America, the problem with Capital Punishment is that it is incredibly unfair and expensive. Most who end up on Death Row, are very poor; thus, they are forced to utilize our pathetic (20 thousand a year, overworked, and unskilled) Public Defender's--or are appointed a random lawyer by the court. Many times the lawyer can be a real estate or corporate attorney with no experience at all in criminal cases(yes it happens quite often). Furthermore, the Prosecution not only has a great deal of experience trying these capital cases, but, they have the unlimited resources of the police department and the government. One can easily ascertain the advantage the state has in trying one of these cases, and thus also understand how Alan Dershowitz and his study discovered that at least 25% of those they studied on death row were innocent had their lawyers done anything.

So on the surface, it sounds great to kill these bums; but in reality, our legal system is just not up to the task. And as someone else pointed out, isnt it far more cruel to lock one of these animals up with a bunch of other animals for life? It actually is cheaper to the state than going through all the legal hurdles and appeals to finally get the chair.

I spent a brief and unfortunate year in law school, and my Criminal law class was taught by a Republican-endorsed, Federal Appellate Judge who told us every day of the aforementioned problem, and if we became prosecutors or politicians, why we have a ethical responsibility to rethink Capital Punishment.

 

[ARC150]

In the United States, it's an automatic death sentence for killing a police officer...here in Canada, it means life imprisonment. Or parole after 20-25 years.

Some crimes, such as rape and child molestation, are getting harsher penalties than murder.....It's almost gotten to the point where taking a life will get you two years less a day in some cases. Very seldom will you get the maximum sentence due to legal technicalities.

This doesn't make sense - it is contradictory; what are you asking/saying?

 

[ARC150]

The death penalty is essentially a revenge killing, and as Plato says (paraphrasing) that is lashing out like an animal, and not befitting of creatures like ourselves.

I sometimes watch the news and have gut feelings that some people deserve to be hung or put to death, but at the same time I find the idea somewhat repulsive. I'm not sure trading death for death is the way forward.

I agree that the justice system in in decay as criminals almost seem to be let off lightly, but its a fallacy to go from there to endorsing the death penalty.

The question of the death penalty, or incarceration, or laws in general, is a matter of the classic query "Am I my brother's keeper?"

In all cases wherein a body of law is to exist, one human must, at some point, agree to being worthy of dictating the consequences of another human's actions.

At one time (at least, in the metaphysical sense), "might makes right" was the governing rule. If I want it, and I can take it from you, then I am justified in the taking. To combat this, people formed into groups of people so that no one person could be the mightiest (the group would always be more powerful than any individual). In order for such allegiences to work, a system of rule must be imposed.

Such a system will always be in some "state of decay" for it is in such a state from its inception - the rules imposed are never agreeable by all, but rather what is acceptable to the majority in the general case.

Thus, the question of punishment is not a moral one (though it is often presented as such); it is simply a question of effectively maintaining order.

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

This doesn't make sense - it is contradictory; what are you asking/saying?

What I'm stating is that the penalty doesn't fit the crime. Murder in the US is treated much differently than in Canada. It has an almost zero-tolerance policy......thus the level of state executions. Where here, the penalties can be as little as two years less a day.....for the same crime.

Take the Karla Homolka/Paul Bernando case. After spending 12 years in prison for giving up her husband (in which she was deemed as being an equal accomplice.....or an even greater participant), she made a deal with the devil to save her own skin. Therefore, she is now free after 12 years.....and after four months in the community, she has had every single restriction lifted on here and is now free to get on with her life. While the parents of those two young girls will have to grieve for the rest of their lives. Would this case have been treated any differently in the US.....or internationally due to more lenient laws or legal precedent?

I'll give you the CBC link to read the story.....and then you can decide whether or not justice was done in this case. Becasue if anyone remembers the James Bulger case over in the UK.....remind me exactly how justice was carried out in this case? Yes, it was children murdering a child. But the way that it was done.....and these boys aren't children anymore, are they?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/02/homolka_appeal051202.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics3/bulger/

 

[speed]

So Manitoba, are you pissed Canada isnt as strict as the US? If you are, it would behoove you to notice our justice system and its strict penalities have been a total failure. Personally, if I were Canada, I'd send your criminals up to the Yukon or Northwest Territories.

 

[AsModEe]

"effective" meaning what exactly? either way it's not like they're going to see the outside world again

effective means that it's more punishing

 

[ACIDBATHER]

The Crimminal INjustice system is FUCKED in America on all sides for no reason other than money; Anyone who has ever had even the most cursory experience with this part of the system will tell you that Justice, Mercy, Punishment, Rehabilitation and all of the other things people tend to associate the crimminal justice system with have niether jack or shit to do with anyone's fate when there are court fee's, lawyers fee's, court appointed counseling costs, probation fees and a trillion other things to capitalize on to consider. If you don't believe me, you can come down to places like the state I live in and see probation offices with business titles such as JUSTICE INC ( I shit you not-Justice incorporated!) Regarding the Death penalty, it is basically useless and just as arbitrary(Sp?)*as anything else in a society that puts a monetary price on everything, possesses no real "moral consensus", and seeks to make more laws than common sense. One thing I will say for the death penalty is thatat least it attempts to focus on ENFORCEMENT and DETERENT instead of just creating another rule or standard to enslave people.










*I suppose that either my theology or the Heiniken had something to do with it-inside joke.

 

[sonofhendrix13]

In my opinion a police officer is no more important than any other citizen so why should someone get a more harsh punishment if they kill a police officer? I think the justice system throughout the world is pretty terrible. I personally don't believe in the idea of justice as it only furthers conflict in many cases. Of course, this philosophy doesn't work in large societies. But as far as I'm concerned, no government should ever have the power to take a human life.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

instead of wasting my tax dollars on housing and feeding these dumb fucks. Get rid of them.

 

[Vital Remains]

what about killer cops? they get off scot free for that shit. fuck cops. i hate them but they keep the peace i guess

 

[Demiurge]

It's quite a surprise when I see someone complain that their system isn't like America's because there is nothing that combines cruelty with complete and total ineffectiveness like the US system. Things here are fucked, I assure you.

 

[derek]

The idea of "justice" seems outmoded now. A person facing a sentence appropriate of their crimes and serving such a sentence whether it be prison, or rehab of some form to the benefit of society seems like some idealist bullshit with the current state we are in.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Cops are just people. Killing a cop should carry no different sentence from killing a teacher, or a dentist. All murders are murders. Why should they be granted special status?

 

[10293847]

Cops are just people. Killing a cop should carry no different sentence from killing a teacher, or a dentist. All murders are murders. Why should they be granted special status?

If I am a law-abiding citizen and someone kills the person who's job it is to protect me, i'm going to be pretty upset and not feel as safe.

You'll notice that there are always open positions to be a police officer, because you're always putting your ass on the line.

So if someone kills a police officer, with no fault to the officer, the person who did this should pay a higher penalty than of the killing of a normal citizen.