Dark fucking Throne!

[hibernal_dream]

But their success was in part due to their adherent 'fuck you' attitude, otherwise they could have had easily jumped aboard the death metal bandwagon that was in order to obtain popularity and easy success. They never did, and instead they helped develop the genre that became what black metal is today. Now people are calling them on it. They aren't just a band, they are a significant band in the metal's history. They've stayed truthful to themselves, that's all that matters amid all the stupid criticism.

And criticizing the band for releasing music? You can look at any underground black metal band and ask them why they are releasing music to the public in the first place just the same, I mean if they're such misanthropes. And hey, it's like saying people don't have to listen to Darkthrone if they don't like them.

More clearly, it's not the attitude itself I have a problem with. The 'fuck you' attitude was always external and set apart from the music. Read the early lyrics and you won't get a semblance of it. Now it goes not only into their interviews, videos and band statements but lyrics and album covers. Why? I heard Nocturno Culto made a beautiful film about metal and solitude - why not make that the subject of the music, instead of attacking detractors and posers? Celtic Frost and early black metal bands, who they essentially now cover never did that sort of thing. It wasn't metal then and it isn't now. It's a gimmick.

 

[Vossyrus]

More clearly, it's not the attitude itself I have a problem with. The 'fuck you' attitude was always external and set apart from the music. Read the early lyrics and you won't get a semblance of it. Now it goes not only into their interviews, videos and band statements but lyrics and album covers. Why? I heard Nocturno Culto made a beautiful film about metal and solitude - why not make that the subject of the music, instead of attacking detractors and posers? Celtic Frost and early black metal bands, who they essentially now cover never did that sort of thing. It wasn't metal then and it isn't now. It's a gimmick.

Well, Darkthrone has always done what they want and will continue to do so - that's sort of the point. Though perhaps it's their current motivation? I mean, if you helped build a genre and something certainly significant enough to spawn a massive movement in music, and then ten thousand bands completely ripped you off, and you were later criticized you on failing to comply with what you originally helped develop wouldn't you be at least somewhat bitter? I'm not just talking about about the music itself, as 99% of bands are built on their influences especially Darkthrone but just about everything 'Darkthrone' has been mimicked to death and quite excessively. And now people are to criticize Darkthrone for having such an attitude? Hell, I'd probably feel the same way. After all, the consistent and number one criticism of the band is why they aren't playing "true black metal" anymore - this is the primary focus of any Darkthrone review, and almost any topic Darkthrone related.

 

[skeptik]

I'm not really buying this part of your argument. A significant part of the really popular black metal bands right now are not at all "trying to be Black Metal" or "tough". To name a few, releases like Blood In Our Wells, or Fas - Ite..., contain many elements never associated with the second wave. Others like Alcest couldn't be less tough. These are the bands getting attention, and they basically are BM for lack of a better term, not due to any significant stylistic similarity to first or second wave black metal.

It's seems silly when people make such a big deal out of Darkthrone's "fuck you" attitude. I bet 50,000 out of the 51,000 metal bands that have existed have/had a "fuck you" attitude. That's what metal is. Except most of those guys are working in warehouses or whatever because their bands didn't get anywhere.

I bet Malefic has that attitude too. Because he doesn't give a fuck, he makes the music he wants to make. Even if it's the same album over and over. Yet no one goes on and on and on about how it's cool that he doesn't give a fuck about trends or what others think. I could say the same for thousands of bands, yet it keeps coming up with Darkthrone above all else.

Ihsahn said "Fuck you Samoth. We're not going to play black metal anymore, so I don't need you." Yet no one extols Ihsahn for being a rebel who makes his own rules. No one thought Prometheus was really cool.

I guess all the promo photos are working wonders for Darkthrone.

You're missing the boat. It's not about bands who are "tough." It's about bands who take themselves far too damn seriously and bands and fans who have forgotten where we came from. In other words, bands like Drudkh, Deathspell Omega, Alcest, etc.

And Malefic doesn't have a "fuck you" attitude expressed in his music, rather a "woe is me my life totally sux0rz weres ma razor" attitude. We're talking about an overtly expressed ideology embedded within the music, not some inborn emotion that gets bottled up inside and causes some asshole to burn down a church.

Come on. This is what I have a problem with - their attitude. It's no different from when Children of Bodom wrote "I don't give a fuck if you Hate Me!" - well Alexi, obviously you do care if you felt the need to write a song about it. It's childish and alcoholic behavior to tell your fans to fuck off, and putting it into your own music is solipsistic. Last album the first line was "nothing to prove" - if so, save us the trouble and stop releasing your music. Just play in your garage. Trying to show that they don't care actually shows they are offended by comments against them, and they're trying to pat themselves on the back by saying they don't care. Yes Darkthrone, you do care - otherwise you would not release music, so stop acting as if you don't.

Too old, Too cold - that sums up Darkthrone today, and the band knows it

The very fact that you would use the phrase "childish and alcoholic behavior" demonstrates your complete missing the point of Darkthrone's current stage. You're the person Darkthrone is saying fuck you to. And I bet that puts a smug little grin on your face to know that. And the fact that you can assume that Darkthrone is "offended" by comments on the internet by the fact that they release music is pretty amazing, since there's no connection between the two. And I'm pretty sure Darkthrone does care - they do care that Black Metal has moved too far from its roots and that people have forgotten them; they do care that people don't even know where the music that they listen to came from, and if they heard something like Bulldozer or Venom they would laugh and say that it had nothing to do with Black Metal. The fact that they do care about this is why they have a fuck you attitude. I don't think they really care what people think of them and their music, though, which is why they would say something like "nothing to prove." They don't need to prove anything. They're not on the defensive, they're on the offensive against the Black Metal trends that have turned their backs on their origins.

But then again you probably listened to The Cult Is Alive twice and never read the lyrics or really gave it any time because it repeats riffs more than once.

 

[Hubster]

In a situation like this, I admire Darkthrone for turning their backs, and saying 'fuck off' as if they've ever cared - this characteristic made them what they are in the first place. They are still very much the same Darkthrone as they've always been but people don't seem to realize it.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say all along. Thank you for voicing it so accurately.

Necuratul - again, well explained, looks like I know owe you a second round of drinks.

 

[Alter]

I'm not really buying this part of your argument. A significant part of the really popular black metal bands right now are not at all "trying to be Black Metal" or "tough". To name a few, releases like Blood In Our Wells, or Fas - Ite..., contain many elements never associated with the second wave. Others like Alcest couldn't be less tough. These are the bands getting attention, and they basically are BM for lack of a better term, not due to any significant stylistic similarity to first or second wave black metal.

It's seems silly when people make such a big deal out of Darkthrone's "fuck you" attitude. I bet 50,000 out of the 51,000 metal bands that have existed have/had a "fuck you" attitude. That's what metal is. Except most of those guys are working in warehouses or whatever because their bands didn't get anywhere.

I bet Malefic has that attitude too. Because he doesn't give a fuck, he makes the music he wants to make. Even if it's the same album over and over. Yet no one goes on and on and on about how it's cool that he doesn't give a fuck about trends or what others think. I could say the same for thousands of bands, yet it keeps coming up with Darkthrone above all else.

Ihsahn said "Fuck you Samoth. We're not going to play black metal anymore, so I don't need you." Yet no one extols Ihsahn for being a rebel who makes his own rules. No one thought Prometheus was really cool.

I guess all the promo photos are working wonders for Darkthrone.

I argee with you. It is not Darkthrone's fault, but it is the fucking fans who honestly think Fenriz is their idol. They seem to "copy his style." Hubster, you are one of my favorite posters but the point is that at this point it is not black metal. The vocals are more "dirty" thrash and the music is heavy metal. Nothing about the record is black metal but it is without a doubt dark fucking throne circa 2007 and after 20 years of playing music. I dont understand why people seem to think that Darkthrone's "fuck you" attitude is the coolest things ever. Mayhem did the same thing, or at least Euronymous did. Deathcrush was not meant to be a "Welcome To Black Metal" record. People are just attracted to Fenriz's interviews and the way he presents himself to people. It is people like you who make this Darthrone media monster.

People need to stop putting Darkthrone's music into a little cage. It is not Black Metal anymore. If you remove the whole attitude and history behind this band I bet you would not call it black metal.

You're missing the boat. It's not about bands who are "tough." It's about bands who take themselves far too damn seriously and bands and fans who have forgotten where we came from. In other words, bands like Drudkh, Deathspell Omega, Alcest, etc.

And Malefic doesn't have a "fuck you" attitude expressed in his music, rather a "woe is me my life totally sux0rz weres ma razor" attitude. We're talking about an overtly expressed ideology embedded within the music, not some inborn emotion that gets bottled up inside and causes some asshole to burn down a church.

This just shows you are really good at giving low blows. Malefic gives a TOTAL FUCK YOU ATTITUDE. It may not be done in the same stylistic way that Darkthrone does it,by naming their album "FUCK OFF AND DIE", but he without a doubt shows a "fuck you attitude."

MastorOlighting is right about Ihsahn. He has a "fuck you" attitude about has much as Fenriz. He just does not go wearing it on his shirt or his album covers. It is not that Fenriz is a total media whore. He is not. The guy is a metal artist. It is just that people like you and Hubster, respectively, make a big deal out of Fenriz's attitude.

Darkthrone had a time period where they were taking them selfs way to serious. I mean for gods sake why look at the cover of "Under A Funeral Moon." They dressed them selfs up in paint and had pictures taken of them selfs in the forest. Yes, It is a great album but if that was done with a fuck out attitude then those pictures would have never been taken. They were meant to intrigue people which is not a "fuck you attitude."

 

[Hubster]

Point taken mate, but I still don't agree - Darkthrone is every bit as black metal as they were before, and Malefic, in comparison to Culto & Fenriz does not have a fuck you attitude. It's more like a wimper.

 

[skeptik]

Malefic shows a similar attitude to Darkthrone in his music? Please cite an example.

 

[KevenZ]

It's a gimmick.

Pretty much resume everything.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

I always thought that the excessively grim photographs in earlier Darkthrone albums were supposed to be taking the piss.

 

[Alteredmindeath]

Q. everybody really admires the Darkthrone approach, and I think that's one of the reasons why the metal community finds you so endearing, such an inspiration, and an example of guys who can keep it real.

NCulto...Yeah, I always find it a bit strange because Fenriz and I...we don't expect anything, you know. We don't expect anyone to like us, but of course, we do a little. But that's because we really believe in the stuff we're doing. But it's always flattering, you know, when people say "what a good record" and so on, you know. It feels good. But then again, we feel that we're doing the things we have to do in order to keep a certain balance in the entire system. We have seen the whole picture quite well. I'm thinking a lot about it because there's room for everybody in the metal community. And I think we should be happy about everyone, actually, because everybody plays their kind of role in the system. And they should. As long as you really believe in what you're doing. There are probably some that don't believe in what they're doing, but ...I don't know...just speculations. I have a lot of speculations in my mind that I...I won't tell you!

Q.Do you have a title for the new Darkthrone record?

NCulto...Yes, the album will be called F*** off and Live Forever, or it's going to be called F*** off and Die. Some people might say, OK...oh...this is going to be even more punk than the last album, but it's not true, actually. It will probably be even more metal in some kind of way. I mean, we are just picking up where we left The Cult is Alive, and we probably have dragged the metal and the rock element a bit further. It's a very diverse album; it's a lot of different songs there, and I think also the sound on the album will be very different because we record two songs each time we meet up, and it results in different sounds on the album.
But I think it's better to try to concentrate on each song and give that particular song its own...like...identity. Yeah, and also, there is going to be an EP in July or something, which will contain one very exclusive song, only for the EP. And there will be a different version of a song called "Wisdom of the Dead." It's a different version on the album. Yeah. And plus another song, and yeah...stuff like that. So that EP will be called New Wave of Black Heavy Metal.

NCulto...I have to say that when it comes to black metal, you're talking about the black metal scene, you know, and everything. But the community of people that are into black metal...everybody is there for different reasons. So it's like other communities around in the world. It's exactly the same because you have a**holes, you have pompous a**holes, you have really great guys and girls. You never know, actually. It's just so diverse. And as I said, everybody is there for different reasons, even if it's just being social. There are so many aspects of it, I think. You know, the Darkthrone stuff...we don't like to be in the spotlight for some reason. I don't know...we just like to keep quiet, so then that's why we are just such a quiet bunch of people. And that applies to Aura Noir as well. So it's just about breathing with your stomach and just, you know, trying to enjoy life as much as possible.

 

[Evil?]

Thank you guys for providing an entire page of interesting conversation that I actually wanted to read. It does not happen nearly enough.

Comparing Malefic's attitude to Darkthrone's is laughable really. Writing mopey and as Nec said "Woe is me" music is not saying, FUCK YOU!

 

[MasterOLightning]

Malefic shows a similar attitude to Darkthrone in his music? Please cite an example.

Well, both show an interest in the history of black metal. Malefic has done covers of many bands that the fans who found out about him in Decibel would never have known, i.e. Manes, Mutiilation, Forgotton Woods, early Katatonia. It may not be first wave like Fenriz' greatest hits album, but it is an attempt to bring light to some relatively obscure acts. There are also the interviews with Darkthrone that emphasize influential bands.

Both have done non-metal covers to highlight influences as well.

Not that I buy everything in the following, but here are the liner notes to Telepathic With The Deceased (2004) for reference:

This album is dedicated to no one.

Fuck off list:
Black Metal "elitist" kids who have not been able to grasp or show the real essence of intolerance, nihilism and hatred in their REAL lives away from the internet, yet these "individuals" claim to be some part of some 'elite' black metal movement that has not left any scar on humanity, these are the same people who use black metal as their crutch! I would expect some dead bodies lying at their feet by now based on how fast they run their "evil" mouths! Return to the 'subculture' scene that rejected you or salvage some dignity and shut the fuck up. Your need for human love and acceptance by your peers (and others) sickens me! Your epitaph will be a bar code. You know who you are, yet you've forgotten you're really nothing. I know how you are. These teenage 'scene veterans' (a contradiction) need their fucking faces smashed in to teach them the meaning of respect and honor. With all that said, I just might hate you as much as I hate those normal human beings in the light world, I never thought it would come to this. You have once or twice judged me, now it's my turn.


There's quite a bit of silly posturing going on there, but I don't have a problem with the message as much as the delivery. There is a hipster segment of his fanbase that these statements apply to a bit.

I'm not really in the mood to dig through other interviews or lyrics or liner notes.

It probably be a better comparison to look at Ihsahn's The Adversary versus the last two Darkthrone albums. I don't have The Adversary though.

I think a lot of people misinterpret Malefic though. There's more anger in that music than most people realize, and it's not self-directed. The themes have become much more about general nihilism and critiques of society. I do not at all think Xasthur is mopey. And if you do, you probably letting other people decide for you what the music is expressing.

 

[skeptik]

I'm only talking about the music, so until you cite some lyrical passages, this is kind of pointless.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Covering bands of historical significance, or those that were a particular influence is about the music.

 

[Alter]

I'm only talking about the music, so until you cite some lyrical passages, this is kind of pointless.

Let your granted wishes torture you
As paradise is nowhere to hide
Tormenting black shadows are the remains
Even after you find the "light"
The key to my energy is to kill you with your will to live
For your screams awaken my dying soul
Drawing spells and gates in blood
Opening to a horror unseen
Our reality dwells in your nightmares
A new religion of suicide to enter the exit


Is that "fuck you" enough...

 

[thisisaformicatable]

The Darkthrone attitude is really not that unique at all, it's very common in black metal - look at Ihsahn as mentioned, Immortal, Impaled Nazarene, Mayhem... Bands "not giving a fuck what anyone else says" and "staying true to themselves" has been used as an excuse/praise for every band who ever did anything different in the history of music, big deal - let's look at the specifics of what Darkthrone is doing. And my interpretation at this point is that the "fuck you" attitude is directed at idiot fans like Alter and possibly certain 'modern' bands yet to be determined, while their actions greatly impress people like Hubster who apparently haven't been following the (black) metal underground that closely these last few decades.

 

[skeptik]

The specifics - Darkthrone is bringing to light and reinterpreting the origins of the genre and beyond, and doing it very well. That's enough for me.

 

[Alter]

The Darkthrone attitude is really not that unique at all, it's very common in black metal - look at Ihsahn as mentioned, Immortal, Impaled Nazarene, Mayhem... Bands "not giving a fuck what anyone else says" and "staying true to themselves" has been used as an excuse/praise for every band who ever did anything different in the history of music, big deal - let's look at the specifics of what Darkthrone is doing. And my interpretation at this point is that the "fuck you" attitude is directed at idiot fans like Alter and possibly certain 'modern' bands yet to be determined, while their actions greatly impress people like Hubster who apparently haven't been following the (black) metal underground that closely these last few decades.

Why am I an idiot?

The specifics - Darkthrone is bringing to light and reinterpreting the origins of the genre and beyond, and doing it very well. That's enough for me.

What are they reinterpreting? This is now getting totally fucking
ridiculous. Can you explain how it sounds like Black Metal now. its dirty heavy metal. Explain to me the which traits how a black metal album it has?

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Why am I an idiot?

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=705090

 

[Alter]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=705090

It came up has "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."