Debating with ignorant family members

[damnromulans]

Just walk away before your blood pressure hits the roof.

 

[Zephyrus]

The topic of politics is rarely take up at my family gatherings, and for good reason, though in my family there are intelligent people on both sides of the political spectrum. My Uncle Rick is an economic conservative. In fact, I just started a minor "debate" with him, but I'm really more curious as to his arguments for Reaganomics. Here's a screen-cap of it so far. I'm not really interested in participating because I don't think I know enough about economics to have a definite opinion.

 

[Der Morgenstern]

I think at this point we've moved beyond wealth creation for lower and middle classes to just trying to tread water.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I've never really had too much trouble with this. Many in my family are conservative, so we agree on a lot of points; that is, when they're not hopped up on that Fox News Kool-Aid. I've found that nearly all of them were ignorant when it comes to monetary policy, so I'm generally happy to enlighten them on the topic. My brother and I disagreed over foreign policy and money in politics for a while, but he's on my side now. I had a run in with my Uncle, who is a Senior Chief in the Navy Seabees, a few years ago when he tried getting me to join the military. This past holiday, however, he was over and I found that we actually agreed on a lot of topics, especially the drug war and foreign policy.

 

[monoxide_child]

I think you're right about the origin of the text, but isn't there evidence that the belief system itself stretches far back into history? The Hebrew tribes did originate during the time of Akkadia and Babylon, which were nearly synchronous with Sumer (maybe a bit later); did they not?

I'm no expert in this field, I just want to verify the information I've come across.

i think you are refering to the gap of time between the birth of "Adam" and the birth of "Moses"
but most non-Christians agree that everything pre-Moses is a completely made-up fairy tale

 

[Blind Guardian]

Yeah this guy is by far the most outspoken and stubborn Republican puppet in my extended family, and he's driven multiple other family members into political apathy with his constant hysteria, so teaching him a lesson in critical thinking would be a pretty big win for me.

You should point out that he spells like a 10-year-old.

 

[Einherjar86]

i think you are refering to the gap of time between the birth of "Adam" and the birth of "Moses"
but most non-Christians agree that everything pre-Moses is a completely made-up fairy tale

I don't take much of the Old Testament all that seriously; but even if the antemosaic segments of the Old Testament were all composed simultaneously in a swift process of imaginative spirituality in order to justify a system of ethical monotheism, they still were likely created around the same time as civilization began in Mesopotamia. Although it's contested, some have interpreted the Cyrus Cylinder as being evidence of Persian interaction with the Hebrews in the 6th century BCE.

 

[monoxide_child]

but even if the antemosaic segments of the Old Testament were all composed simultaneously in a swift process of imaginative spirituality in order to justify a system of ethical monotheism, they still were likely created around the same time as civilization began in Mesopotamia.

wait a min
my point was that if the ante-mosaic segmanets of old testament really were all "composed simultaniously in swift process of imaginative spirituality in order to justify monotheism" then that theoretically could put the poly-theistic religions as being way way older than monotheism, if you say that monotheism didn't exist untill the birth of moses

 

[Einherjar86]

wait a min
my point was that if the ante-mosaic segmanets of old testament really were all "composed simultaniously in swift process of imaginative spirituality in order to justify monotheism" then that theoretically could put the poly-theistic religions as being way way older than monotheism, if you say that monotheism didn't exist untill the birth of moses

I'm not saying it didn't exist prior to Moses. I'm saying that it might have been during that time that some system of ethical monotheism began creating sacred texts to justify its existence.

Even so, if we agree that texts like the Cyrus Cylinder give us some evidence as to ancient interaction between the Hebrews and the Persians, then it's likely that Judaism (or an early form of it) arose alongside other polytheistic traditions in the region as early as the fifth and sixth centuries BCE.

 

[monoxide_child]

as early as the fifth and sixth centuries BCE.

according to the young-earth-creationists, the universe didn't even exist that early

 

[Einherjar86]

...but I'm speaking historically. As a religion, I think there's evidence that Judaism existed that early. I'm not saying that's what those of the Judeo-Christian faith believe spiritually.

 

[Mulver]

delete

 

[Vimana]

I think you're right about the origin of the text, but isn't there evidence that the belief system itself stretches far back into history? The Hebrew tribes did originate during the time of Akkadia and Babylon, which were nearly synchronous with Sumer (maybe a bit later); did they not?

I'm no expert in this field, I just want to verify the information I've come across.

I learned all of this in a college history course I took last year. The Hebrews were originally from the fertile crescent, but they weren't the Hebrews we know now religiously, or maybe even culturally, until about 3000 years ago. Sumer, and Akkadia go back about 6000, and Babylon came after. They were in different spots, but pretty close together in the Fertile Crescent.

Edit: And they're all Afro-Asiatic, as well as the Egyptians, which explains similar characters like the evil snake.

 

[SouthernAbyss]

In my family, we don't talk about politics, unless we're all bagging the crap out of the Australian Government. My grandma and I always end up talking about war and immigration whenever we see each other, apart from that, nope, no one says a word. One side of the family is partly Catholic, and the other, I guess you could call Atheists

 

[monoxide_child]

I learned all of this in a college history course I took last year. The Hebrews were originally from the fertile crescent, but they weren't the Hebrews we know now religiously, or maybe even culturally, until about 3000 years ago. Sumer, and Akkadia go back about 6000, and Babylon came after. They were in different spots, but pretty close together in the Fertile Crescent.

Edit: And they're all Afro-Asiatic, as well as the Egyptians, which explains similar characters like the evil snake.

my whole point was that poly-theism pre-dates mono-theism

 

[SentinelSlain]

I tried to convince my mother to vote for the proposed change in the voting system, but she had some leaflet that some conservative canvasser had posted through the door and kept waving it around and acting like it was the direct word of god. I've noticed some people who are otherwise intelligent individuals can be very easily lead by any source that has some supposed level of authority.

Arguing with my mother is a bit of a waste of time though, she's one of those people who stopped adapting their understanding of the world at some point decades ago. My dad is just too damn left wing. I'm ashamed.

 

[Vimana]

my whole point was that poly-theism pre-dates mono-theism

How could you possibly know that? We have no way of knowing what kind of religion appeared first.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I've had similar problems with a close friend of mine who used to share my anarchist views but now he is basically sucking Obama's cock. He and his wife actually met Joe Biden last week, who proceeded to basically hit on his wife, and he thought it was a fucking honor. He really hates it when I tell him that Obama is just Bush redux.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

He sounds like a miserable idiot

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I used to view him as being quite intelligent.