Define Death Metal and Black Metal for me please

[Demiurge]

Why are you dragging up old, useless topics, you dumb cuntrag?

 

[SoulSlaughter]

Soulslaughter, you are truely retarded, if you just said "i don't like black metal" that would be fine. Firstly, there is a huge difference between minimalism and simplicity, black metal being minimalism. Dimmu while have having black metal roots are not black metal, they are symphonic metal. Cradle of Filth are not and have never been a blackmetal band, any one who says they are are as ignorant on the subject as you. Using synths goes astray from what black metal is, i.e. listen to immortal. Just cause i would really like to make the point, if Cradle of Filth sound like black metal (mayhem, burzum, darkthrone, immortal, emperor...etc) then i must be fucking unable to hear a fucking sound.
As for the original question asked, death metal generally has lower growls as opposed to high screams in blackmetal. Blackmetal generally has higher tuning on the guitars (e tuning, for those of you who play an instrument) and death metal depending if its swedish, american (floridian, new york) etc uses from D to B tuning respectively. Black metal generally has very anti-judeo-christian ideolism and usually no guitar solos. My knowledge on what Blackmetal is is fairly limited, and i am bound to have made mistakes, anyone want to correct me? (except retards like soulslaughter, who don't know what they are talking about and just say they are either "good" or "bad" depending on what they like).
One more time, Cradel of Filth are not black metal. never have been.
For Iced in Flames if you want to hear some black metal check out: Immortal, Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Darkthrone and some good death metal would be Morbid Angel, Suffocation, Monstrosity etc. Just hear a few songs and you should be able to tell the difference.

then my opinion is black metal sucks because they have to stick to the minimalism because they're untalented and have no creativity. if you want to argue over dimmu, fine. dimmu IS ONE OF THE FEW black metal bands that actually went further with the music than most black metal bands. that's why i appreciate some of their music. they explored other aspects of metal and were successful mastering symphonic metal with black metal and whatever other metal they incorporated in their music. i don't get that technical: i just listen to the music and either enjoy it or hate it.

denying dimmu borgir is black metal: you're a retarded fool

cradle of filth are faggoth, faggot, so yes: there is a very strong element of black metal in their music. once again. this is a band that went much farther than other bm bands and the result is success. i hate cradle of filth, but i can respect what they are trying to do. children of bodom have synths and they're still considered death metal with a very strong melodic influence.

in conclusion:if you want to be a sensitive bitch and analyze every inch of a music genre, then have fun wanking and trying to show your fraudulent intelligence on something that doesn't take that much expertise. my liking dimmu means that other black metal bands can pick up the pace and show skills in their music playing. well, i guess not since they suck and a blindfolded monkey could play the same shit. that says much more than i can say for you.

 

[SoulSlaughter]

Why are you dragging up old, useless topics, you dumb cuntrag?

because dumbasses like yourself still don't get the point.

 

[Nico]

What fucking point? For christ sake, dont you realize that you have no idea what you're talking about? You listen to fucking melo-death.

 

[spigot]

If you like me haven't been able to get into black metal, you should check out the 'almost black' andviking metal bands like Akercocke, Enslaved, Ensiferum, Astriaal, Ulver...

 

[Henrik Main]

dimmu IS ONE OF THE FEW black metal bands that actually went further with the music than most black metal bands.
denying dimmu borgir is black metal: you're a retarded fool

No. He is not the retarded fool.

children of bodom have synths and they're still considered death metal with a very strong melodic influence.

Dear SoulSlaughter,

Thanks for your letter. I'm doing fine, it seems as if the teachers will go on a strike in a week. That means the exams are cancelled. Happy days!

Concerning your description of CoB as death metal, I'm afraid that you're terribly wrong. If you want death metal with melodies, try Avulsed or Vehemence.

Have a nice weekend!

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

because dumbasses like yourself still don't get the point.

And that point would be what? That you're the whole board's prison bitch?

 

[Profanity]

And that point would be what? That you're the whole board's prison bitch?

No, the point was something much better than that.

 

[prozak]

They (he) should be catogorized as such. Rob Darken fully endorses the NS ideology. He has recorded a split cd with Honour and a quick glance at his site (articles, links) should tell you enough.

I think you've got it backward.

NS-ideology idealizes many pagan and Traditional ideas.

Thus one can be a pagan and appear to some as an NSer, when in fact the NSers were borrowing from the pagan...

This isn't to endorse or attempt to discredit either, but a practical observation. A real jerk (me?!) might make the point that all of NS is a dual ripoff of the Roman Empire and Hinduism.

 

[m0rtis]

Black Metal = A warlock/ evil mage
Death Metal = A Barbarian with a large axe in his hand

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

I'm aware of this, I know he fully endorses it, I'm just saying that his music in Graveland is more Pagan-based.

I would say the same thing for Burzum. Varg endorses the NS ideology, but dosent incorporate it into his music.

 

[Hammer of Might]

I don't really see how something cannot be categorised as "black metal" if the particular ideology isn't there, but the music the artist produces may be inseperable from other known BM names.

To say "no, you can't call them black metal because they don't have the black metal ideology" is laughable. I mean, isn't a key focus of this supposed ideology freedom anyway, so to block bands into categories based on whether or not they conform to established ideas is ludicrous.

I concede that a lot of the time ideological themes do come across in the music (not just lyrically) but if a band still creates the same atmosphere by focusing on pure mythology, fantasy or whatever, without the whole rejection of the Judeo-Christian west, freedom, and so on, then why the fuck should they not be described as black metal?

Whatever the origins of the term regarding ideology, I say pretty confidently that nowadays the term is used vastly in reference to the style of the music, and not the underlying ideology, and thus to use it to describe some band who might sound identical to an agreed 'black metal' band and yet lack the same ideology would seem perfectly valid.

 

[polarity]

I mean, isn't a key focus of this supposed ideology freedom anyway

No.

 

[Reign in Acai]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, this is great. SoulSlaughter, you have to be one of the most ignorant people to "grace" these boards in a while. Cradle of Filth is nu-metal you dumb cunt. Get AIDS.

Soulslaughter if you don't have knowledge on a specific subject then why reply my friend? Don't post replys for the sole purpose of replying. Beyond that point...You have a nice day.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

then my opinion is black metal sucks because they have to stick to the minimalism because they're untalented and have no creativity. if you want to argue over dimmu, fine. dimmu IS ONE OF THE FEW black metal bands that actually went further with the music than most black metal bands. that's why i appreciate some of their music. they explored other aspects of metal and were successful mastering symphonic metal with black metal and whatever other metal they incorporated in their music. i don't get that technical: i just listen to the music and either enjoy it or hate it.

Your problem is as simple as this, you are not smart enough for black metal. The lyrical concepts and idealologies, and their sonic expressions are simply too much for your minute brain to handle. You are caught up on much less important elements of music like technicality (btw much black metal is absolutely brilliant as far as musical theory goes) and because of that you will never understand what black metal is all about. Its really sad. Its like listening to a ten your old try and explain why we should or should not go to war with Iraq, you have no idea what your talking about, and if that last sentence is any indication, you never will be able to. So please stick to your simple minded -oh so techinal- music and stop talking about things that are beyond you.

 

[_SLAYERIZED_]

This is what Black Metal is about: http://www.humorweb.no/filmer/black_metal.mpeg << watch this!

haha...


however well Black Metal is not really my cup of tea but Cradle and Dummi Burger are definetly NOT black metal! And Bands like Emperor and Burzum are black metal for girls!

these are some cool BM records...

VENOM ( OF COURSE )
BATHORY "S/T"
BATHORY "THE RETURN"
BATHORY "UNDER THE SIGN OF THE BLACK MARK"
MAYHEM "PURE FUCKING ARMAGEDDON"
MAYHEM "DEATHCRUSH"
MAYHEM "DE MYSTERIIS DOM SATHANAS"
MAYHEM "LIVE IN LEIPZIG"
SARCOFAGO "I.N.R.I."
BLASPHEMY "BLOOD UPON THE ALTAR " DEMO
BLASPHEMY "FALLEN ANGEL OF DOOM"
BLASPHEMY "GODS OF WAR"
BEHERIT "SEVENTH BLASPHEMY" DEMO
BEHERIT "THE OATH OF BLACK BLOOD"
BEHERIT "DRAWING DOWN THE MOON"
BEHERIT/ARCHGOAT SPLIT
PROFANATICA "BROKEN THRONE OF CHRIST" DEMO
PROFANATICA "PUTRESCENCE OF...." DEMO
MYSTIFIER" WICCA"
NIFELHEIM "UNHOLY DEATH"
NIFELHEIM "S/T"
NIFELHEIM "DEVIL'S FORCE"
NIFELHEIM "SERVANTS OF DARKNESS"
IMMORTAL "DIABOLICAL FULLMOON MYSTICISM"
IMMORTAL "PURE HOLOCAUST"
DARKTHRONE "A BLAZE IN THE NORTHERN SKY"
IMPIETY "SKULLFUCKING ARMAGEDDON"
ABIGAIL "INTERCOURSE AND LUST"
MORBID "DEATHEXECUTION"
MORBID "DECEMBER MOON"
VON "SATANIC BLOOD"
TORMENTOR ( HUNGARY) "ANNO DOMINI"

:hotjump:

 

[Henrik Main]

This is what Black Metal is about: http://www.humorweb.no/filmer/black_metal.mpeg << watch this!

Hehe. A Norwegian commercial that was rather popular some years ago.

 

[ADS]

...pretty talentless to me. besides that, they stick to a couple of riffs per song which can last for minutes. black metal gets boring and redundant. it sucks.

Hmmm... if your birthday is correct in your profile, then I was listening to "metal" when you were still in the womb. I watched with my own ears the birth of both death and black metal... and I could easily say the exact opposite of what you said in that quote... that deathmetal is often a couple riffs per song, boring and redundant.

Fact is though, that aside from (usually) distinct vocal differences, the rest of your original statement could entirely be made for or against either genre.

I personally like music to be epic, powerful, complex, bursting with talent and atmosphere... expressive, deep, intense, complex, and I usually prefer it to be melodic, often symphonic. And I dunno about the rest of you, but I can EASILY find bands in EITHER genre that fit that description perfectly. As well as bands in either genre that are the complete opposite.

To me, the two things that stand out as being distinctly different between black and death metal is bm style vocals versus death style vocals, and usually a much heavier sound versus a less heavier sound. Power chords versus minor chords... smily-faced EQ settings versus frown-faced EQ settings.

Turn down the mids, turn up the highs and lows, play a fast drum beat behind a fast power chord progression, and I created deathmetal. Turn UP the mids, turn DOWN the highs and lows, play a fast drum beat behind a fast minor chord progression, and I just created black metal. That's simplified, obviously, but hopefully it makes my point.

As far as everything else that's been mentioned... in this day and age, the rest of that stuff seems to be so blurred and varied that it's hard to describe either genre in descriptions based on style, ideology, complexity or lyrical content. Ten years ago you could. Even 5 years ago maybe. But not today. And this, to me, is a very good thing.

~Robert

 

[None_So_Vile]

Damn, that was a good post ADS, nicely said

 

[Hobo11]

I would consider Dimmu Borgir and Cradle of Filth Symphonic Black Metal, as both do use symphonies in their recordings, which I totally love. However, Cradle is sorta cheesy in how they act, the face paint and acting like they are reviving the Order of the Dragon.

ADS, you seem to make some really good points, the vocal style is different for both genres. Also, in Melodic Death you have more guitar solos and riffs compared to Black Metal, however, Im a fan of Immortal and have heard some great guitarwork there as well. Ultimately it comes down to preference and you really shouldnt knock one style for the other, only metal style Id make fun of is nu-metal, but there are some decent bands there as well.