Diezel Herbert vs ... ?

[TaylorG]

If it makes anyone in this thread feel better that they are brainwashed fucks for thinking these amps are actually good because they probably cost more than the car they drive, I've only played the VH-4 not the Herbert. I saw one in a store 2 months ago and had absolutely no interest in playing it.

My car cost about $32,000.

My VH4 was about $4000.


Car is awesome and VH4 is awesome.

I'm sure in your infinite wisdom as a 14 year old you :

- Turned it up
- Used proper settings
- Had good ears

I've owned every iteration of Recto, three 5150's, two VHT's, one Orange, one Laney and three Marshalls, and I've kept one 6505 and the VH4.

Diezel's aren't for everyone, but to say they are crap is unbelievably stupid.

Can't believe anyone would say Diezel are loose... They are the tightest amps I have ever used (I'd include the Mark V though), much much better than any Rectifier in that regard. My personal preference in heavy tone goes to the 6505 but I still reckon this is a far inferior amp to the Diezels (it's a one and half trick poney while the Diezel has 4 totally different channels).

Yeah no shit.
VH4's are loose to say, a VHT/Fryette...but I shouldn't have to explain much after that.

 

[JakeAC5253]

My Mesa Standard 4x12 says "Hey you, mthfkr! Put your mic in my face, i wanna show you a tube power!"
But seriously afx2 sounding good, very good, but IR be worse then miced tube head plug in to real cab. I have 6 years experience working with IR, and I know what I'm talking. Now it's time to throw out toys

I make some Axe-portable IRs that are currently catching on in popularity with the Axe crowd... Not to self-promote, but all things considered that's the cheapest option you have...

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...use-hysteria-axefx2-frozen-sun-audio-irs.html

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/practice-room/861255-some-frozensun-showcase-kinda-thing.html

 

[JonWormwood]

Diezel's are fizzy overpriced crap. I remember going to guitar center when I was like 14 and seeing a amp that cost 4000$ and I was like holy shit, that thing must be the best amp evar! Plugged in with a USA Jackson and was shock, probably the worst amplifier I've ever plugged into. Ill take a 6505 or any Mesa over that shit any day.

Id stay away from Krank too unless your able to try it out, they get some really bad reviews over the internet.

THe 5150iii is suppose to be a more versatile 6505 right? I don't give a shit about versatility but 6505 brutal + fender cleans can only be win.

If it makes anyone in this thread feel better that they are brainwashed fucks for thinking these amps are actually good because they probably cost more than the car they drive, I've only played the VH-4 not the Herbert. I saw one in a store 2 months ago and had absolutely no interest in playing it.

When you were 14.



When I was 14 I fucked some girl in the ass on a construction site in the dark with spit as lube, it took like 20 minutes to make it work. The dumb shit we think when are 14.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I've owned the Einstein and Herbert and they can definitely be pretty loose, Einstein especially. The VH4 I've played several times and just really never been impressed with it. Good sounding amp but nowhere near worth the pricetag. I've heard some great tones come out of them though, so maybe I'm just doing something wrong. The Herbert to me only really sounded awesome with the midcut engaged and then, well... It didn't cut. Without it, it just didn't sound nearly as huge. The Einstein was an interesting amp. I always compare it to somewhat of the Diezel take on a Recto, not to say they sound the same, but the Einstein has a huge lowend that easily gets boomy. Of all 3 though, I think the Einstein is the only one I'd buy again. The Hagen does quite interest me though, but I'm not sure I'll ever justify spending that kind of cash on an amp again, so until I find one in a store, I probably won't check it out anytime soon.

 

[Mago]

^ that's so strange, most people I know who also like the Herbert think the Midcut is great...
I can't find any use for it. Whenever I turned it on, what I think makes the amp awesome is gone.

Also pretty hefty to say you played ONE amp of their arsenal, and thought it was overpriced fizzy crap.
Especially when mentioning the 5150 in the same post, that beast can be way more fizzy than any diezel I ever tried (which I think is every one, exept the d-moll)

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I tried the Herbert yesterday.
It's got a big tight low end, overall a very polished/produced sound.
Not bad for modern high gain (don't use that mid scoop though, that turns it into a horrible sounding piece of shit)
BUT although the high gain sound is ok/good, it's nothing to write home about IMO.
And the plasticy character of it kinda reminded me of modern Engls...powerball for rich kids?
The clean and crunch of the Herbert is AWFUL though! No depth, no dynamics.
Overall I'd say the Herbert is an amp with a good modern high gain and shit cleans, no depth or character whatsoever.

 

[EffigyForgotten]

^ that's so strange, most people I know who also like the Herbert think the Midcut is great...
I can't find any use for it. Whenever I turned it on, what I think makes the amp awesome is gone.

Also pretty hefty to say you played ONE amp of their arsenal, and thought it was overpriced fizzy crap.
Especially when mentioning the 5150 in the same post, that beast can be way more fizzy than any diezel I ever tried (which I think is every one, exept the d-moll)

6505 is fizzy in a good way, the VH-4 was a muddy mess. I don't remember if I tried a boost pedal or not.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

EffigyForgotten just out of curiosity may I ask you how old you are now?

 

[EffigyForgotten]

EffigyForgotten just out of curiosity may I ask you how old you are now?

17. "out of curiosity" made me laugh.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I tried the Herbert yesterday.
It's got a big tight low end, overall a very polished/produced sound.
Not bad for modern high gain (don't use that mid scoop though, that turns it into a horrible sounding piece of shit)
BUT although the high gain sound is ok/good, it's nothing to write home about IMO.
And the plasticy character of it kinda reminded me of modern Engls...powerball for rich kids?
The clean and crunch of the Herbert is AWFUL though! No depth, no dynamics.
Overall I'd say the Herbert is an amp with a good modern high gain and shit cleans, no depth or character whatsoever.

Really? Clean and crunch were probably my favorite tones on the amp towards the end of me owning it LOL. That being said, I wouldn't say its akin to the Powerball at all, at least the one I've played. Powerball was grainy and fizz galore, the Herbert is quite smooth.

As far as the VH4 being muddy, Effigy, you must've been fucking high off your ass, because if there's one thing that amp isn't, is that its muddy. In your infinite wisdom of amps at 14, I'm sure you just plugged in and turned the gain all the way up. Good way to make ANY amp muddy.

 

[~BURNY~]

Tried a VH4 myself and thought it sounded good but it had a weird compression going on. The high gain tone was kind of "spanky" if that makes any sense.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I might have worded that wrong...I didn't mean the Herby SOUNDS like the Powerball...actually the tonal character is quite different (smooth vs grainy etc), I just mean the lack of depth, 2-D-ness, plasticy sound etc...
obviously the Herby sounds different and much better than the powerfail!!
it's just not "organic"/dynamic/3D sounding at all...just like the PB

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Yeah I'm with Lasse on the Herbert lacking something (although I'd take it over any Powerball).
Burny I see what you mean, the VH4 (and Einstein) have an insane dynamics, even more if you play them through the Diezel cabs (which are awesome and blow the Mesa in my opinion), it's like every pick attack is like a CLA snare
Now, everyone has different opinions and tastes, but calling the VH4 fizzy or muddy is wrong in my book Would be like someone trying a Rectifier with master volume at 1 because it's too loud already, and saying the amp is buzy and has no balls...

 

[born_dead]

Thanks guys!
Herbert comes to me in a few days and then I'll check it out myself. What would you recommend me to buy in order to expand the sounds pallete - EVH5150III(50 watt or 100 watt)/5150/Mesa Mark V/other amp?)

 

[Deuteronomy]

Diezel are overpriced
You can buy a peavey 6505/5150 and a great cabinet(boogie,marshall) with the same money you would have paid for the diezel.
Rectifiers are amazing with the rectifier cabinet,otherwise they are not for THAT good for my taste.
Peavey and Engl has the best prices

 

[TaylorG]

Diezel are overpriced
You can buy a peavey 6505/5150 and a great cabinet(boogie,marshall) with the same money you would have paid for the diezel.
Rectifiers are amazing with the rectifier cabinet,otherwise they are not for THAT good for my taste.
Peavey and Engl has the best prices

Expensive? Sure. No more expensive then any other amp with the same options.
The reason Diezels cost so much has nothing to do with what they sound like.

People seem to have this prejudice that expensive = better sounding.
Tone is, and always will be, subjective. If you can get a 6505 to sound how you want your amp to sound, then good for you.
If you want the sound of a Diezel, then you're not going to find it anywhere else then a Diezel.

The major reason they cost so much is the amount of options and overall build quality you get. Nothing I've ever seen has the precision or top-level componentry of a Diezel.
That, combined with being handbuillt in Germany, tends to bring up the price a bit.
An Engl SE or a VHT Pitbull CLX are in the same price range, and quite frankly, from what I've seen, not as well built.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it overpriced.
I thought we got rid of that kind of thinking after high school.

You want to see overpriced? Google the price for a used Dumble.

 

[Eduardo Apolonia]

My opinion on the Herbert can be resumed as that it has a great sound on it's own but doesn't work so well on the mix. Sometimes it reminds me of SOME (so that this doesn't end in an endless real amp vs ampsim discussion ) Ampsims, it sounds like a real amp until you put it in the mix and then it kind of disappears in comparison to a real amp.

It has some great lows, soft highs but where it lacks is in the mids. (Where you need it most).
The lows and highs gives it that great sound, but when on the mix (where you need the mids more than anything) the good things about it are dropped and the worst comes to the top.

Mine made a good improvement when I changed the Power tubes.
I don't remember well but think I installed RFTs.

I also have to say that don't have so much experience with this amp as with some of my other amps.

Time to get the dust out of it and start using it again.

I think that it only happen once or twice that the Herbert was the preferred amp by my reamp clients.

 

[StefTD]

I am really interested how oftern Erik Rutan uses it and if you actually hear it on
the last Godsmack, you can see a Herbert, Splawn and an Engl Blackmore as far
as I remember.

 

[TB!]

I have a Herbert 2 and a Mesa RK 2 for roughly 18 months now. This may make it a little easier to judge the qualities of both. Here in Germany the Herbert is cheaper than the RK, costing something like 2.500 Euros compared to 3.500 EUR.

I'm using the standard 4x12 V30 Mesa cabinet and a Road King cabinet (the one with 2 V90 and open back and one closed chamber with 2 V30).

Overall the RK 2 is pretty versatile when it comes to clean sounds. Especially the Tweed and Brit modes in Ch 1 and 2 offer quite different approaches to different sound between clean and slightly overdriven. The Brit mode in Ch 2 comes close to the clean sound in my Mesa Stiletto that I played for a while ... the best thing about the Stiletto were the slightly overdriven, cristal clear sounds. The cabinet switching feature of the RK 2 makes absolute sense for clean sounds as the standard 4x12 V30 cabinet tends to sound somehow muffled in the upper frequencies. I love the sparkle from the V90 as well from a small cheap 2x12 cabinet (also equipped with V30) that I am using together with the V90s for cleaner sounds.

In comparison the clean channel of the Herbert is also able to produce sparkling leads (much like the Tweed mode of the RK 2), but it is less versatile than the combination of Ch 1 and 2 in the RK. But then ... I normally don't play clean tones ;-) When I'm rehearsing with the band there might be an entire evenening without playing one single note with a clean tone ..

The tonal character of Ch 3 and 4 with 6L6 is the same as with my Dual Rectifier that I played for more than 10 years. In comparison to the Herbert the texture of the RK (and DR) sound is more muddy and less aggressive (English isn't my first language, so please forgive me if I'm being unprecise). I like this typical Recto sound. But with my old DR I changed to EL34s and all sounds I like with the RK utilize the pair of EL34 that are built into the amp. For my liking the Recto sound tends to be a little bit to smooth ... although there are days when I'm looking exactly for this sound characteristic when I'm looking for inspiration (I'm not a good guitar player ... I depend on decent equipment to produce a reasonable musical result ..).

I think it is nonsense to talk about these two amps in terms of good and bad. They stand for different tonal characters and I like both of them. Having played them both alone at home and with the band I would say the Herbert is more musical ... it is more willing to follow the ideas of the player, although its sound is more compressed than that of a VH4. Its sound also has bigger balls and a kind of aggressiveness and boldness I personally appreciate very much (I'm playing a 7-string ...).

One more thing: I have had some trouble with the RK 2. A relais had to be changed while the amp was still under warranty.

 

[Lozek]

I owned a Herbert for a few years and have spent a long time hanging out with one of the two company owners. I believe their attention to detail is second to none and their approach to everything is based on quality before cost. It worked stupendously well when I was in a 7-string band tuned in A, but my current band plays sixes in C and it didn’t have the right cut for it. I ended up trading it on, but did keep the cabinet (2 x V30’s & 2 x G12K100’s in an X Pattern).