Discussing leaks

[Black Session]

Today I clicked on the link for "Opeth's facebook page" on their official website, just to check it out again ... I thought that was an official site? Well it definitely is NOT!
So maybe they shouldn't only check this forum, but also other pages, and at least not offer links to them when they pull stuff like that off.

Otherwise, completely against leaking, but also against releasing tracks officially beforehand like they did again (for some of the same and some other reasons obviously). I wouldn't have even listened to those tracks if I would be able to listen to the album the day it came out, but will have to wait 2 more months after that!
Well anyway, people who buy at least a couple of cds every month like me shouldn't be judged too hard when downloading something occasionally.

 

[Bleak Harvest]

Pro Tip: Keep your whore mouths shut until the album is released.

Sticky is needed.

 

[affinityband]

lol @ ANY official band forum encouraging ANY professional band/artist leak.

 

[Death_To_False_Metal]

Hmm, you should re think your argument there, friend. I don't think its just Westerners that are downloading stuff. In fact, people download all over the world. I don't necessarily disagree or agree, but your facts are fucked up.

Economics 101, the biggest amount of computers are in the western world.
FACT.
You may think computers are a commodity but they are fucking not, it further proves my point you don't know how rich you are by just owning a computer which is fairly common in western countries now but we are far from 6 billion computer owners, I mean VERY far.

That s not saying other countries don't download but it's peanuts compared to the bandwith dedicated to P2P downloading in western countries.
Plus western people have actually the purchasing power to buy cds.
We have no fucking excuses.


I really wonder if there is a business model without paying the music at all.

I mean Radiohead tried painfully to give a lesson to the record companies ( already a dead word) but they benefited from all the promotion of the old business model with marketing, MTV, commercials.
By giving their music free, they boosted their ego, nothing else. It was a slap in the face for struggling bands trying to make it.

The whole 'bands will make their dough with touring thing "is flawed.

People just don't realize it yet.

Have you noticed that all the biggest tours involve bands of the old business model ?

When this era of bands disappears, how the concert market will survive with millions of Myspace bands know by 500 fans around the world ?

 

[BefriendedUnit]

That's true.

The fact is that cd sales on the whole are going DOWN around the world. I know many people (in fact, all of my friends) who don't buy cd's at all and only download.
In certain areas, yes, downloading has helped bands, especially beginner bands. Which is why usually bands who are just starting out and only have a release or two under their belt, put up their own album to download or stream on the net. But that's their choice.
The facts are that piracey is hurting bands and labels. You can't argue the numbers.

And to the dude who said that he thinks the leak is planned because only two songs were released at first - those two songs were released digitally first by Roadrunner - ie, you had to pay to download them.

Take into account that the record industry is, in general and with a few notable exceptions, fucking shitty.

When tapes came out, they were a good deal of money. The big four announced that CDs would be cheaper to produce and so wouldn't cost nearly as much as cassettes... except, they do. They cost twice as much, at least. Why is this?

 

[Metalstrm]

The effect of reduced cd sales could be explained by an increase in legal download sales. Also, some studies indicate that piracy might not be a determining factor at all:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...n-music-sales-the-digital-singles-effect.html

 

[BefriendedUnit]

The studies that indicate piracy as the main culprit are invariably fostered by record labels themselves. Those that indicate otherwise are generally everyone else.

 

[Metalstrm]

Actually, I was browsing on illegal sharing and found this!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-220000-for-illegal-music-sharing-396126.html

She apparently loved Opeth! Lofl. Poor native american.

 

[dew]

The internet, partially because of piracy, helps lesser-known bands and hurts the so-called "corporate bands" which have oversaturated radio coverage and MTV coverage. The internet helps people find music that they like, and reduces the amount of people who just buy what the big companies try to sell you. The big companies are pissed because they're getting a lower return on their investment, so they try to stop the free exposure smaller bands get online, while claiming to be working in the interest of protecting the artists.

When too many people pirate music of smaller, lesser-known bands without buying any CDs, that's a problem, but Michael Jackson is going to live if you just download his music.

 

[BefriendedUnit]

Period.

Leaking is a separate story. I support illegal downloading to a degree (that's how I first heard of Opeth (I've bought all the records since)), but at the same time I think it's wrong to download the leaks, and incredibly rude to discuss doing so on the band's own forum. It was Mike who said:

I have thought about closing this forum down a few times before. Maybe it's time now? We are paying for this in order for you guys to communicate and for the band to throw in a few punches every now and then. I thought it was a fun read before, now I'm not so sure. When people start comparing the popularity of this here forum to the quality of our music I have to say it just makes me weak and tired and I wonder why the hell we have this forum at all.

The rudeness of discussing the leaks here on the forum the band pays for is magnified by the fact that Mikael actually POSTS here - and he does so regularly. There are few bands who share this kind of relationship with their fans.

 

[Tepheron]

The fact is that cd sales on the whole are going DOWN around the world. I know many people (in fact, all of my friends) who don't buy cd's at all and only download.

Are you serious? Even their favorite bands?

I can understand downloading music to check a band out, and then actually buy the album if you like what you hear. But to exclusively download music even if one really likes the band and the album? That's just not very cool.

I couldn't even imagine doing that. Buying a CD and supporting a band you like is what it's all about. That, and the music of course.

 

[skuller]

Are you serious? Even their favorite bands?

I can understand downloading music to check a band out, and then actually buy the album if you like what you hear. But to exclusively download music even if one really likes the band and the album? That's just not very cool.

I couldn't even imagine doing that. Buying a CD and supporting a band you like is what it's all about. That, and the music of course.

i think he meant downloading from iTunes, etc..

 

[Adramelech2012]

Wow, I used to follow that whole 'going to buy the album anyway' philosphy but Samsara has made a very good point I didn't see earlier.

his theory is flawed...how many people buy a car without test driving it first (?) :Smug: Use your head knoob, if I am gonna pay 20 dollars USD on a cd than I might as well listen or sample it first.

 

[Cynical Bastard]

In 99'-2000 I downloaded Black Rose Immortal, Bleak, To Bid You Farewell, and White Cluster after reading an album review on Ultimatemetal.com I believe.

So, after illegally downloading those 4 songs I have since bought:

Orchid cd
Morningrise cd
MAYH cd
Still Life cd
Blackwater park cd (twice because I lent out one copy & never got it back)
Deliverance cd
Damnation cd
Ghost Reveries cd
Lamentations DVD
Roundhouse Tapes cd
Ghost Reveries-special edition cd/dvd

I have also seen Opeth 5 or 6 times live and bought 3 different t-shirts at concerts, so...

In total, I have spent some $400 at the least on Opeth...

And I think that more than well makes up for some initial piracy on my part.

 

[Rogue Eagle]

his theory is flawed...how many people buy a car without test driving it first (?) :Smug: Use your head knoob, if I am gonna pay 20 dollars USD on a cd than I might as well listen or sample it first.

Yes OK I see your point too. Don't go calling me a n00b/knob though. I found Opeth through illegal downloading (and have purchased all etc. etc. t shirts etc since).
Then again, a 'sample' might only be a couple of tracks rather than the *entire thing*.

 

[Mr Samsara]

his theory is flawed...how many people buy a car without test driving it first (?) :Smug: Use your head knoob, if I am gonna pay 20 dollars USD on a cd than I might as well listen or sample it first.

my "theory" is NOT flawed. You have not even payed attention to what I have said, noob... and have completly missed my point like over half of this forums population. Or at least half of the ones who are posting on the subject.

 

[Gëist]

his theory is flawed...how many people buy a car without test driving it first (?) :Smug: Use your head knoob, if I am gonna pay 20 dollars USD on a cd than I might as well listen or sample it first.

Actually, the best cd's I've ever bought were those I didn't hear at all before purchasing them.
And the quality of the headphones in a store are not good enough to get an opinion.

 

[Face Of Frater]

his theory is flawed...how many people buy a car without test driving it first (?) Use your head knoob, if I am gonna pay 20 dollars USD on a cd than I might as well listen or sample it first.

Im with you. I always test at least a couple of songs before buying the album.

 

[perpetual_black_force]

Period.

Leaking is a separate story. I support illegal downloading to a degree (that's how I first heard of Opeth (I've bought all the records since)), but at the same time I think it's wrong to download the leaks, and incredibly rude to discuss doing so on the band's own forum. It was Mike who said:



The rudeness of discussing the leaks here on the forum the band pays for is magnified by the fact that Mikael actually POSTS here - and he does so regularly. There are few bands who share this kind of relationship with their fans.

Mike shouldn't take all the threads and posts in the forum seriousely. As we are all aware, majority of the members here are bullshitters. Also, too many 13 years olds are around. One day I was walking down in town and stopped to buy a drink. In front of me there was 2 kids, perhaps 12 or 13 years olds. One was telling the other how much respect he gets for his posts in this forum. I've said this before, although I'm not against them but I feel there are many posers around and most of them are kids who dont have much repsect to the rights of the band, although they might consider themselves hardcore fans. So, I believe mike is wasting his time by taking everything in.
Mike should remember, the real opeth fans will always remain loyal to opeth. Mike, chill out and let them posers to fuck off. Rock hard.

 

[Korlich]

I mean Radiohead tried painfully to give a lesson to the record companies ( already a dead word) but they benefited from all the promotion of the old business model with marketing, MTV, commercials.
By giving their music free, they boosted their ego, nothing else. It was a slap in the face for struggling bands trying to make it.

Actually RH made big money by letting it be up to each individuals moral sense, budget constraint etc. how much they will pay. Many small bands do similair stuff, like using paypal so ppl can support the band directly, but dl their music for free. This can work like with "Open source" programmes.