Do you celebrate Christmas?

[Hell Mike]

I can't read the article, but is the giving of gifts part of the old Pagan traditions around Christmas?

yep

 

[Erik]

I can't read the article, but is the giving of gifts part of the old Pagan traditions around Christmas?

Heh, I think pretty much every Christmas^WYule tradition that isn't either really new or has to do with Jesus is pagan.

 

[spaffe]

I can't read the article, but is the giving of gifts part of the old Pagan traditions around Christmas?

He doesn't say anything about and I belive I heard somewhere that it appeared not too long ago, a few hundred years or so.

 

[Erik]

"Under trädet placerar vi också alla de gåvor som vi skänker varandra för att stärka vänskapsbanden mellan oss."

That's all he says about that, hmm, I'm too lazy to seek other sources.

 

[spaffe]

Ops, missed that one, but I checked NE.se and it claimed that: "julklapp, ursprungligen namnet på en äldre inhemsk, svensk allmogesed, som bestod i att man vid jul kastade in en halmfigur, ett vedträ eller annan skämtgåva, försedd med en ofta satirisk vers eller tillägnan. Inom högre stånd hade nyårsgåvor äldre hävd och omnämndes redan på 1000-talet i Norge."

which translates roughly as "julklapp (christmas gift), originally the name of an older domestic practice among common people, were a prank gift (like a goat made of hay or a log) was thrown into the house with a satirical little poem and recipiant written on a note atatched. Among nobles newyear's gifts was and old practice mentioned as early as in the 11th century in Norway."

But that's only for Norway and Sweden, but perhaps it was the same on the continent

 

[Henrik Main]

The gift thing allegedly comes from the three Wise Men giving presents to the newborn Christ.

 

[MFJ]

Thats pretty awesome.

 

[Hell Mike]

I've heard stuff about Oden, Heimdall and Freja alll going out to give people stuff for Jul, as always the christian way of seeing this is mere adopted bullshit

 

[MFJ]

Thats what I thought, even the gift-giving originated with the Pagans. And naturally, the Christians decided to fuck with it... now after going over this thread I have come to the conclusion that most of the winter traditions/celebrations are of quite far back origin.

 

[Hell Mike]

The similarity between odin and jultomten/santa claus (not necessarily the merry fella in red clothes that Coca Cola more or less invented) is there too

 

[MFJ]

Haha yeah... the origianl idea of "Santa Claus" is so far off from the modern Coca-Cola image, and no one realizes it! Santa/Jultomten was origianlly a gnome spirit, if I am not mistaken.

 

[spaffe]

The similarity between odin and jultomten/santa claus (not necessarily the merry fella in red clothes that Coca Cola more or less invented) is there too

Hm, I can only think of the beard (where does that notion come from anyway?) as a possible similarity, have you read/heard about anything else? Isn't it pretty accepted that todays santa is a remake of the german saint Nicholaus and then given today's form by the paintings of Jenny Nystörm? Odin didn't hand out any gifts annually as far as I know, he seems to have been a pretty grumpy old man juding by the stories hehe

Edit: Or are you refering to the swedish gårdstomte?

 

[Hell Mike]

Gårdstomtar and such are one (huge) similarity, but old man handing out gifts whilst having beard is close enough to odin for me at least, keep in mind that it's been a while since christianity invaded us and things to change over time

EDIT: And I don't really buy that shyte about st. nikolaus

 

[spaffe]

Gårdstomtar and such are one (huge) similarity, but old man handing out gifts whilst having beard is close enough to odin for me at least, keep in mind that it's been a while since christianity invaded us and things to change over time

EDIT: And I don't really buy that shyte about st. nikolaus

I think the notion of little helpers on the farm are as old as the pagan beliefs. The older tradtion of a julbock handing out gifts could perhaps be a sort of merge between Oden and his bucks, but that's stretching it pretty far.
And when did Oden hand out gifts? (apart from the runes perhaps)

 

[JayKeeley]

Yeah... And this is why you shouldn't live in obnoxiously large cities

Ugh, it doesn't matter over here. The mall culture of the suburbs dictates that if you decide to go anywhere in your car on the weekend, you'll hit traffic. And if you do need to go to the mall, you have to deal with the crazed hordes. Finding a space to park the car can seriously damage your health.

All my shopping this year will be on the WWW. And again, indoors > outdoors.

 

[JayKeeley]

Interesting - Christmas, Winter Solstice, Channukah, and Kwanza all fall together at the same time of year. How convenient of all the ancient gods.

EDIT: Next thing you know, the muslims will start celebrating Eid in December too, haha.

 

[Erik]

Interesting - Christmas, Winter Solstice, Channukah, and Kwanza all fall together at the same time of year. How convenient of all the ancient gods.

And as always, we Norse are the only sane people, as ours is the only (?) of these holidays that actually has a good reason to take place in December

 

[Hell Mike]

spaffe: I know I've read it somewhere at least, too lazy to find stuff on it now (no good hits on the first page of google=I won't try harder) and he DOES have the name Jolner which at least points to a connection with jul... I don't really think the julbock-stuff is that far-fetched either.

OTHER QUESTION: Could someone tell me who came up with the reindeer?

 

[mousewings]

We used to celebrate it so I wouldn't feel left out from my religious/Christian peers at school.

It's a thanks to surviving winter. And an excuse to put up a shiny tree, give presents, get drunk and scream at each other over a dinner of ham and potatoes.

 

[spaffe]

spaffe: I know I've read it somewhere at least, too lazy to find stuff on it now (no good hits on the first page of google=I won't try harder) and he DOES have the name Jolner which at least points to a connection with jul... I don't really think the julbock-stuff is that far-fetched either.

OTHER QUESTION: Could someone tell me who came up with the reindeer?

Yeah that guy on that page I pasted mentions it "att dricka jul", and that he was supposed to ride the night around the time of the solstice etc.

Found this on NE.se about the julbock however: "Men liksom julbocken, som ju härstammade från ett utklädningsupptåg och därför var en maskförsedd, julklappsutdelande person, blev även jultomten hos oss [...]"

I've no idea about the raindeers however, it feels pretty recent though