Do you still listen to Watershed?

[burntoast]

fans love still life, fanboys love the newest album

there's nothing to "realize", you're not supposed to get an epiphany from my posts burntoast, i've just noticed that with every new album, generally it's the fanboys that love it more than any other one, that is until the next one comes out. totally regardless of the album's quality.

I wouldn't doubt that, but I don't agree with this:

my point is that only fanboys can't realize that SL is in totally different realm of quality

So if you happen to prefer Watershed to Still Life, you must be some crazed fanboy?

 

[affinityband]

phil u used to be cool man

 

[philno]

So if you happen to prefer Watershed to Still Life, you must be some crazed fanboy?

yes

 

[burntoast]

And that's where you're wrong.

 

[philno]

i'm not convinced.

 

[Albert R]

fans love still life, fanboys love the newest album

there's nothing to "realize", you're not supposed to get an epiphany from my posts burntoast, i've just noticed that with every new album, generally it's the fanboys that love it more than any other one, that is until the next one comes out. totally regardless of the album's quality.

You have some really strange ideas.

I like Watershed more than Still Life, but I like MAYH more than Watershed, so what does that make me?

 

[philno]

it makes you confused

to me the issue is as black and white as how 99% of people will choose classic rush over snakes and ladders, or how 99% of people will choose older porcupine tree albums to fear of a blank planet.

 

[burntoast]

And all of this makes you look silly. Has it ever occurred to you that there may be a factor outside of being a fanboy—say, perhaps, personal preference—that may play a role in determining which album is preferred to another?

 

[Albert R]

it makes you confused

to me the issue is as black and white as how 99% of people will choose classic rush over snakes and ladders, or how 99% of people will choose older porcupine tree albums to fear of a blank planet.

...or how some people might have an opinion different to yours?

"to me" is the key in your sentence. It is your opinion, nothing more.

What is black and white is fact that you're unable to grasp the concept of taste or opinion, which are traits of human individuality.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

^ Yep

 

[philno]

And all of this makes you look silly. Has it ever occurred to you that there may be a factor outside of being a fanboy—say, perhaps, personal preference—that may play a role in determining which album is preferred to another?

personal preference should be the ONLY factor. and what determines someone's personal preference? face it, if you're new into opeth, you'll like watershed more because it's getting all the media's attention, and you haven't been around long enough to see opeth changing up to watershed. i can tell you with 99% certainty that someone who has been into opeth for more than 5 years will prefer either MR/MAYH/SL/BWP to watershed. it's that simple because the difference is that obvious in people who have been around long enough. hell, i got into opeth when BWP was released, but i still preferred still life.

 

[philno]

...or how some people might have an opinion different to yours?

"to me" is the key in your sentence. It is your opinion, nothing more.

What is black and white is fact that you're unable to grasp the concept of taste or opinion, which are traits of human individuality.

yet, with all of our individual tastes, 99% of people can agree that bands like pink floyd and rush reached their climax in the 70's. go figure.

 

[affinityband]

i got into opeth when deliverance came out, then my fave was MAYH. i thought deliverance blew, but then GR came out and i loved it and then Watershed came out and i loved it. fct is i am a fanboy but not because i like the newest album thats been released but because they crush souls throughout their back catalogue.
what phils doing is the usual, make a big statement that rattles everyones cages then has about two pages worth of arguing on the board because not everyone agrees with the gospel according to phil.

 

[grey knight]

personal preference should be the ONLY factor. and what determines someone's personal preference? face it, if you're new into opeth, you'll like watershed more because it's getting all the media's attention, and you haven't been around long enough to see opeth changing up to watershed. i can tell you with 99% certainty that someone who has been into opeth for more than 5 years will prefer either MR/MAYH/SL/BWP to watershed. it's that simple because the difference is that obvious in people who have been around long enough. hell, i got into opeth when BWP was released, but i still preferred still life.

I got into opeth right after the release of Watershed, but my favorite album is Orcid, only album that for now can dethrone it is Mayh which is still a uncharted island for me.

Well though, Watershed, along with Mr and Mayh was last album from them I got.

 

[burntoast]

personal preference should be the ONLY factor. and what determines someone's personal preference? face it, if you're new into opeth, you'll like watershed more because it's getting all the media's attention, and you haven't been around long enough to see opeth changing up to watershed.

Now you're changing your tune. If Watershed is the only album one's heard or the only album one's focused on, then I agree. I've never argued against this possibility.

I just don't happen to agree with the following:

i can tell you with 99% certainty that someone who has been into opeth for more than 5 years will prefer either MR/MAYH/SL/BWP to watershed. it's that simple because the difference is that obvious in people who have been around long enough.

I have a few friends who have been into Opeth longer than 5 years who prefer Watershed to some of the earlier efforts. What's the big deal? If you're saying that seasoned fans should necessarily prefer the older records to Watershed, then you're wrong. It may be true for the majority, but it's not an indisputable fact, and going against the grain is not necessarily a sign of being a fanboy.

When you say "the difference is that obvious," I assume you're talking about a qualitative difference. If so, then that difference is entirely subjective and can't be used as the basis for an argument. I just find it laughable that you believe this difference can be quantified objectively.

Your point earlier was that if someone happens to prefer Watershed to Still Life, he must be a crazed fanboy. Now your point seems to be that he must be a new fan—or perhaps both. Which is it? Stick to one point.

 

[Albert R]

yet, with all of our individual tastes, 99% of people can agree that bands like pink floyd and rush reached their climax in the 70's. go figure.

You seem to have missed the irony that later Opeth material has more in common with 70s Pink Floyd than the early stuff.

 

[philno]

You seem to have missed the irony that later Opeth material has more in common with 70s Pink Floyd than the early stuff.

totally irrelevant to my argument, my argument had nothing to do with opeth's influences, rather it was to give an example of bands that have clearly passed their creative climaxes. it could have been any band.

to burntoast: my argument hasn't changed the slightest. forgive me for using fanboy and new fan interchangeably, but on this forum they're the same. there's a reason why i said that 99% of people (not crazed fanboys who discuss their favorite opeth album on UM every week) will prefer, or actually even straight up say, that opeth's older albums are better than their new ones. exceptions exist to everything, and providing a few "well.. uh... my friends think otherwise" exceptions does not disprove my notion that the MAJORITY of people will prefer older albums to the newer ones. all it takes is a look at forum polls, every time it's the same thing, the classic albums are better.

the great thing about being on this forum for so long is that i know that in a year or so you'll all have totally different views on watershed. i'm not here to say that watershed sucks. my argument has only been that the SL era of opeth is well recognized as the climax of opeth's career. if you prefer watershed to still life, you're in the minority and im betting that eventually your opinion will change.

 

[WeirdGray]

Ok, some of you said fanboys like Watershed and some of you said fans like SL,BWP etc. Well how about fangays/fanlesbians? Is there any suggestion for them? If you wouldn't tell then New York Times maybe say something funky words Ok forget about it.. go on please

 

[burntoast]

burntoast: my argument hasn't changed the slightest. forgive me for using fanboy and new fan interchangeably, but on this forum they're the same. there's a reason why i said that 99% of people will prefer, or actually even straight up say, that opeth's older albums are better than their new ones. exceptions exist to everything, and providing a few "well.. uh... my friends think otherwise" does not disprove my notion that the MAJORITY of people will prefer older albums to the newer ones. all it takes is a look at forum polls, every time it's the same thing, the classic albums are better.

You need to read a bit more attentively. I wasn't trying to disprove the notion that "the majority of the people will prefer older albums to the newer ones." In fact, if you read what I said carefully, you'd see that I stated that "it may be true for the majority."

Note the subtlety of my argument. The friends I was referring to weren't meant to be deflect the aforementioned notion; they were meant to prove that even seasoned fans—fans who have given every album enough consideration—can prefer Watershed to the earlier albums and that doing so doesn't necessarily mean you're a fanboy, which is the point you made originally before you went off on a tangent.

my argument has only been that the SL era of opeth is well recognized as the climax of opeth's career.

I wasn't contesting that. As long as you can agree that seasoned fans can prefer Watershed to Still Life or any of the older records and that doing so doesn't make you a fanboy, I have nothing more to say.

I agree with everything else you said.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

The good old times.:Smug: