Does Opeth, in some way, fit your definition of musical genious?

[MetalManCPA]

First of all, everybody's definition of musical genius is probably different. Secondly, I'm directing this question to bands and not individual artists.

I define musical genius in simple terms as follows:
The ability for the musicians (band in this case) to convey through their music something that does not fall off the surface of the listener, but instead digs deep inside.

In my opinion, musical genius doesn't necessarily mean being the most technically proficient at their craft. If I was asking the question of musical genius about an individual artist and not a band, then that one persons technical merits would weigh more heavily. But, a band has multiple members pulling together to create a particular sound. A good band meshes at all levels. An individual artist has their instrument and/or voice only with no others to worry about.

Also, try not to make any comparisons to other bands. This question is solely about Opeth.

My answer is absolutely yes. Opeth, throughout their eight albums, continues to produce music that I consider genius. I can't pigeon-hole them into a genre because they present too varied a sound, which is something I also consider genius. Simple, intricate, heavy, mellow, repetetive, emotional - just a few of the words that come to mind. The ability of Opeth to dig deep inside me consistently is something I find quite amazing (and satisfying).

 

[FUBAR]

Opeth, in everyway, fits my description of Musical Genius

 

[Header]

There is no Band like Opeth that could be able to link despair, sadness, anger and joy in one song. Opeth's music is... mh, forget about it...
Man, what I'm trying to say is YES!

I watched "Lamentations" this morning again and every time I saw the filming I'm sure there is no greater Band on earth!

 

[annt]

Yes.

 

[aestusmaris@hotmail.com]

Speaking of lamentations, and I'll get onto the genius tack in a second, watch Harvest carefully, I don't know how the cameraman did it, probably total fluke but if you look at Mike around the end of his solo, he seems to float almost, I dunno, it's hard to explain but the lighting behind him makes him look like he does a little matrixy thing, It's hard to explain, just watch it for yourself.
Opeth are geniuses

 

[ism44]

Definitely yes. Opeth are completely unique; their songs are deep and moving while conveying impressive technical ability and ideas

 

[The Evil Toucan]

Absolutely no way.

Devil Doll is genius. Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Mahler etc. were genius. Bird, Dizzy, Miles, and Coltrane were genius.

I don't think Mike (and let's be honest, it is pretty much ALL Mike) would put himself anywhere near the same league as those guys.

They are very, very, very, very good; the pinnacle of metal and of dark music. But that does not equal genius.

IMHO.

 

[For My Sweetheart the Drunk]

No. He's good at what he does, but that's it. A musical genius is the likes of McCartney, Lennon, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Bird, and Mingus, oh and Blackheim...

 

[aestusmaris@hotmail.com]

I think it definetly comes down to opinion, cos you sure as hell can't base genius on album sales or critique, not that the above two posts do ('cept listing mccartney and lennon as musical geniuses, they aren't) but I don't think akerfeldt could be labelled a genius...yet, maybe one day when he releases his one man opera based on the trees and lost loves.

 

[Morpha]

Yes.

 

[the_drip]

In our modern timeline and relative to the rest of what's goign on in Music these days...yes. Opeth are very much geniuses.

However when compared to other "Musical geniuses" , Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Liszt, Wagner, STravinsky, and John Cage...they fall short of the criteria.

 

[annt]

I can't understand how someone can say Mike isn't a musical genius but Bob Dylan is. Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion... but still, wtf?

 

[Arnold Layne]

In our modern timeline and relative to the rest of what's goign on in Music these days...yes. Opeth are very much geniuses.

However when compared to other "Musical geniuses" , Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Liszt, Wagner, STravinsky, and John Cage...they fall short of the criteria.

Although Im not a big classical fan, I agee with you 100%

 

[For My Sweetheart the Drunk]

I can't understand how someone can say Mike isn't a musical genius but Bob Dylan is. Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion... but still, wtf?

Well, maybe one day you will. That comment suggests you nothing of the magnitude which is Dylan.

I think people are throwing the word genius around much too lightly. Opeth have never released a full on masterpeice in the same breath as Kind of Blue, The White Album, or Dylan's Blood on the Tracks. But these comparisons are nonsensical since Opeth are not even in the same league as the aforementioned. The only similarity which I can state is perhaps comparing them to the likes of Metalica in 1986. Even though none of their albums equate the genius which was the first three metallica albums, I think on the whole -- everything they have released -- can be considered as influentual (not in terms of sales, or listenings) to the musical world as Metallica once were. As much as it pains me to compare the latter with Opeth, it's extremely hard not to when the latter was once the most powerful metal band that ever lived (well, I would say Sabbath, but you get the point).

 

[annt]

Well, maybe one day you will. That comment suggests you nothing of the magnitude which is Dylan.

Okay, I'll have to admit I haven't listened to a lot of Dylan. But I always thought that the lyrics were more important in his songs than music. What I've heard, I just can't consider it as "musical geniousness" or something... Sure, songs with three or four chords can work very well, but IMHO it's far more challenging to try to arrange complex chord progressions and time signatures in a way that they still sound good and affect emotionally.
But I don't want to underestimate Dylan's songwriting, so I'll stick to composers familiar to me, i.e. Lennon/McCartney. Sure, they wrote a bunch of enjoyable pop tunes, and some experimental stuff, of which something works and something doesn't. But I wouldn't call it musical geniousness either. I'd better stop this before everyone starts to hate me.

And speaking of Metallica, I also noticed some sorts of similarity just recently! Even though in my opinion Opeth are far superior to anything Metallica, they seem to be similarly... how to say it... I don't know, sort of magical? I'm of course speaking of 80's Metallica. Long songs, of which every part is captivating and in it's perfect place... I'm running out of words here, but I hope you get the idea.

And please remember, these are just my opinions.

 

[For My Sweetheart the Drunk]

I respect your opinion, but I just want to set the record straight concerning Dylan, the beatles or any music which came out in what we consider today as antiquity: The music is a lot more complex than we think -- just listen to the bass line in dear prudence to realize that there are more complexities here than any Opeth tune I have ever heard. I've been playing Opeth shit for a long time on guitar, and it's not that hard to play. A lot of their riffs revolve three-chord variations, mostly using some fancy open-string work. But the Beatles or Dylan concocted much more complex chord variations -- which made absolute sense! -- and vocal lines than most people care to admit. Just looking at Mikael's favorite songwriters, I'm actually surprised Dylan isn't mentioned being such a fan of acoustic-orientated music. But anyways, you can see that Lennon/McCartney are there for more reasons than one...

 

[annt]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, I've been playing Opeth for a long time as well, and I also have marvelled many of the Beatles' melodies and chord progressions... I just like Opeth's arrangements and the emotions their songs evoke more, I've always liked the "emotional rollercoaster" style of songwriting present in progressive rock, and maybe I just can't hear the geniousness in more "traditional" compositions so well... But I'll promise I'll try to start listening Dylan with a more open mind

 

[annt]

Oh yeah, and the point I was also trying to make is that I don't think complexity equals geniousness.

 

[For My Sweetheart the Drunk]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, I've been playing Opeth for a long time as well, and I also have marvelled many of the Beatles' melodies and chord progressions... I just like Opeth's arrangements and the emotions their songs evoke more, I've always liked the "emotional rollercoaster" style of songwriting present in progressive rock, and maybe I just can't hear the geniousness in more "traditional" compositions so well... But I'll promise I'll try to start listening Dylan with a more open mind

Nice. Start out with Blood on the Tracks. Open-mind is the key word here.

 

[Optic]

Here's how I see the "genius" question:

I probably couldn't write a song as good (and certainly not as complex) as the songs Mikael writes, but it's not such a stretch to imagine how you could sit down with a guitar and craft a chord progression, a song structure, a vocal melody etc. in the way he does.

When I listen to the best music by Captain Beefheart, say, or Brian Wilson, I just cannot see where it comes from... what "rules" they were following, how they knew where to start, how they thought this or that sound/structure could possibly work. To me, THAT'S genius.