"Doom" or not?

NvmbrsDoom5

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Jul 24, 2002
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www.novembersdoom.com
A question has been floating around in our minds for some time, and I think I'll put it to you guys here on the forum to add some input to this query....

Do you consider Novembers Doom to truly be a "doom" band? Yes, aside from the fact that the word 'doom' is in the band name and all, do you consider what Novembers Doom writes and plays nowadays to really be considered "doom metal"? This is something we've discussed amongst ourselves for some time now, and I'd be curious to see what you guys might have to say.

For now, I will not reveal my personal thoughts on the matter, I'd like to see what anyone has to say first, and then I will throw in my two cents. I really hope you guys participate in this thread, because I really want to hear your thoughts on this.
 
Here are my thoughts:
Up to the knowing, ND played death inspired doom metal. Now, initiated by To Welcome the Fade, ND play doom inspired death metal. Both sides are quite excellent. The more recent material does indeed lean much more to the death side of the spectrum, but with Doom influences. Hey... i love doom... i love death... i love this music!
 
I would agree in that there is that death aspect in the ND brand of doom metal. I also believe that gothic doom can be a good term as Paradise Lost's 'Gothic' album created or at least refined that genre (where death and doom styles merge), in which ND seems to be carrying that flame very well.
 
I find that ND are very much doom, and very much death, but still nothing lke either genre. They could be compared to many bands, but not many bands could be compared to them.
 
I still hope to have plenty more input from you guys (and gals!) here on the forum about this subject, but I think I'll add my two cents in now, and you guys take it from there.....

ND started out in the early 90s as very much a doom metal band, or doom/death band or whatever you want to call it. The objective was to play music that was mostly slow and sloth-like, with epic female vocals, pained poetic male vocals, layered over incredibly heavy down tuned guitars and slow drumbeats. While we haven't completely strayed from this altogether, we've certainly evolved and changed into something that, in my opinion, bares little resemblance to the "Amid..." era of ND. We still have our slow epic moments (i.e. "Dark Fields...", "Within My Flesh", etc.) but when writing songs like "Not The Strong", "Lost In A Day", "In The Absence of Grace", and so on, we've felt that the label of "doom" just didn't apply whatsoever to the feel and sound of these songs. Especially in regards to the upcoming cd, again it does have it's doom-like moments, but I just couldn't label it as doom with clear conscience. Doom, to me, are bands like Candlemass and Trouble, St. Vitus, Sleep, etc., and doom/death would be My Dying Bride, early Anathema, and so on...At this point I think we have very little in common with any of the bands mentioned, though they all contributed to an initial influence and inspiration back in the day, and we still very much enjoy all of these bands from a listeners standpoint.

My reasoning for posting this thread was because for a while now, I've read on this forum and others about how people seem to be very divided on whether or not we fit in or belong under the umbrella of the "doom scene". It seems we've fallen into that grey area where we're not clearly defined as any one thing, or in other words, we're not easily categorized. One person will label us as "doom" without any doubt or hesitation, and yet another person will say we're not "doom" by any stretch of the imagination. I was just curious as to what you guys here had to say about this.

Do we consider ourselves a doom band anymore? Speaking for myself only (I'll let Paul and Vito throw in their own two cents if they want), I can't say I really think of us as a doom band now. We have those elements in our sound, but they've been mixed with far too many other elements now that have little to do with doom metal/doom rock. I can't really figure out a "label" or category that our music could be thrown under, much like, in my opinion, bands like Edge of Sanity, Opeth, Katatonia, etc. are all hard to throw into one specific category, and all fall into that sort of "grey area"....and while we may not be as popular or as good as those bands mentioned, I have no problem whatsoever with being in the company of bands such as those!!

Anyhow, I just like to hear your thoughts on this stuff because it really does help us and it lets us know how people perceive things about ND compared with how we perceive them ourselves. With each new album and such, it gets harder to figure out just how to approach the marketing and everything, especially since it's general habit for people to want to know what "style" or "category" it falls under.
 
Well I think you guys are doom. In fact I think you are the best at it. I only had to listen to your songs once to immediately like them. Unlike the other doom stuff that I like which required several listens. I say keep up the good work
 
I like to think of us as a metal or death metal band with dark elements, borrowing from all the styles we're influenced by. Doom in the traditional description, is not us. We were closer to that at one time. We move even further from that with the new CD as well.
 
It always puzzles me when people label you guys as 'doom'. These are usually the same people that also list Opeth as one of their favorite doom bands.
Both bands are death metal... death metal as FAR as possible in the genre from the cookie monster death metal bands that sing about fucking decapitated nuns as you can be.
By adding the melodic elements, and occasionally breaking it up with clean vocals and groovy guitar, you accidentally get lumped in with the doomsters.
 
I think that it's true that ND is just as hard to categorize as some bands like Opeth/Katatonia, but a lot of the reason one would call ND doom is because they don't know what to call it. Really, I would call Novembers Doom, along with Opeth and others in that grey area more dark metal. Dark metal is such a vague enogh term that it fits with bands like Novembers Doom and others, on the same hand fitting with bands like Rotting Christ, who could also be called black metal. Though they are black metal, they add much more to their sound, giving it a much darker sound, like Novembers Doom does with death metal.

Aaaarrrggghhh...genres are so confusing.
 
katatonic_fear said:
I think that it's true that ND is just as hard to categorize as some bands like Opeth/Katatonia, but a lot of the reason one would call ND doom is because they don't know what to call it. Really, I would call Novembers Doom, along with Opeth and others in that grey area more dark metal. Dark metal is such a vague enogh term that it fits with bands like Novembers Doom and others, on the same hand fitting with bands like Rotting Christ, who could also be called black metal. Though they are black metal, they add much more to their sound, giving it a much darker sound, like Novembers Doom does with death metal.

Aaaarrrggghhh...genres are so confusing.


Agreed 100%
Like Carpathian Forest who use corpsepaint and spikes and such are MUCH more of an extremely punk/crust inspired traditional metal band... AND THEY USE A SAXOPHONE for fucks sake! But are still labeled as 'typical Norweigan black metal'
 
I'd have to say yes, definately doom...when I play any of your CD's to the pop-idiots at work, they often threaten to slice open their throats...which in some cases wouldn't be a bad thing....your music is the darkness that is needed to show the light in the world...the music is heavy, deep, melodic, and the vocals and lyrics cannot be questioned as to the genre...therefore, and thusly, yes, doom....hell, just look at the news any given day and see if you can find any difference...doom is all around us, just in different forms. That is why some don't see your music as doom. Oh well, I just enjoy it...keep it coming.....thanks.

Dragon
 
Usurper Dan said:
Agreed 100%
Like Carpathian Forest who use corpsepaint and spikes and such are MUCH more of an extremely punk/crust inspired traditional metal band... AND THEY USE A SAXOPHONE for fucks sake! But are still labeled as 'typical Norweigan black metal'

Y'know, that's always bugged the crap out of me. How could anyone in their right mind label Carpathian Forest as "typical Norwegian black metal"? Grrr.
 
I wouldn't label Novembers Doom as being a Doom metal band, I would say dark metal would be a good label. This new cd in my opinion cannot be labeled as doom metal in anyway save for a few parts. Hahaha I can't wait till people hear this and get their asses kicked. Wimps and posers better leave the hall I'm telling you.
 
I would label Novembers Doom as a Doom (rock/metal/whatever) Band. But perhaps Dark Metal is more suitable because it is very general (any metal band with dark lyrics can fall under dark metal IMO). Or maybe we should come up with a new type of music genre and call it -> New Age Doom Metal :OMG:
 
LOL, "new age doom metal", good one.

See, to me, "doom" metal/rock is predominantly slow paced and dreary. I guess maybe what I consider to be slow and what others consider to be slow differs somewhat. We may not play "fast" but we certainly don't play slow all the time. I guess nowadays people feel that music that isn't at the speed of a Suffocation or Cryptospy song is considered "slow". If you listen to most of the tempos on "Amid Its Hallowed Mirth" and "Of Sculptured Ivy...", they're almost all fairly slow. With "...Fade" and this newest one (which I realise you guys havent heard yet, but for those of you who've heard "In The Absence of Grace" you have a slight idea...) the tempos are much more upbeat than before and our chord voicings aren't all sad, minor-keyed all the time anymore either. Well anyhow, I mean if people consider us to be "doom" in their opinion that doesn't bother us at all. Only when it's used against us, like "they're not one of the better doom metal bands compared to My Dying Bride and Mourning Beloveth" or something. I just think that it's like comparing apples and oranges now, because we're so much different from those bands, in my opinion.
I think I can speak for the whole band when I say that we would like to not be promoted as being a "doom metal" band anymore. It's just too misleading. You wouldn't go up to a guy wearing a Solitude Aeturnus shirt and push Opeth on him as being "doom", and I think the same holds true for us. It's just that trap we've fallen into now, where the real hardcore doom fans say "I don't like ND because they're not really doom" and the death metal, black metal, and other metal fans say "I never listened to ND because I don't like doom metal." Our hope is that people will eventually at least give us a chance regardless of whatever category they think we belonged in before. However, I think because of our name and our past, we'll always be viewed this way. It's just the way it goes, I guess.

Ultimately I will be very interested to see what people's opinions are of this matter after hearing "The Pale Haunt Departure".