Dream Theater - Octavarium

[DoktorShred]

Well....since there's no discussion allowed on the Dream Theater boards yet, I'll post a little tiny bit here.

Dream Theater are going downhill fast. Most of this album isn't really prog at all, and there aren't really any truly amazing songs. A few good ones, but there are some awful moments. Meanwhile, Pain Of Salvation released probably one of the best Prog albums ever last year. If Dream Theater keep going this way with there next album, I'm going to stop buying Dream Theater albums.

Prog = moving forwards, not using complex time signatures all the time. In 1992 that *was* progressive, but now dream theater are progressing by regressing, if that makes sense. They are always ahead of the game...and every album is different to the last.

They have proven on octavarium that they can fit their DT style into songs under 7 minutes...aswell as proving that they can still write catchy songs like the ones on falling into infinity. With the exception of never enough which takes the muse thing slightly too far, I love this album and it is very cohesive with all the segues and stuff. Whilst it's too early to tell I think it will end up as one of my favourite DT albums.

 

[Dark Lucidity]

ive heard the panic attack edit and i thought the muse thing was bad enough on that..

i dont mind if musically they sound a little like muse. But in panic attack labrie sings just like the dude in muse at one point

how bad is it on the rest of the album?? worse?!

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Pain Of Salvation is progressive....but yeah, I know what you mean. Even so, this is bad for a "prog" release.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Prog = moving forwards, not using complex time signatures all the time. In 1992 that *was* progressive, but now dream theater are progressing by regressing, if that makes sense. They are always ahead of the game...and every album is different to the last.

They have proven on octavarium that they can fit their DT style into songs under 7 minutes...aswell as proving that they can still write catchy songs like the ones on falling into infinity. With the exception of never enough which takes the muse thing slightly too far, I love this album and it is very cohesive with all the segues and stuff. Whilst it's too early to tell I think it will end up as one of my favourite DT albums.

Well.....I would probably add to that "moving music forwards." I'm not seeing this as "moving forwards," I see it as slowly moving towards being a prog-modern rock band.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

ive heard the panic attack edit and i thought the muse thing was bad enough on that..

i dont mind if musically they sound a little like muse. But in panic attack labrie sings just like the dude in muse at one point

how bad is it on the rest of the album?? worse?!

Yeah, I noticed that part......a few bits on Panic Attack. But "Never Enough" is pretty much a full-blown Muse ripoff fest.

 

[Jeremy Krull]

Dream Theater sounds more like a regressive band these days.

 

[Yngtchie Blacksteen]

Dream Theater sounds more like a regressive band these days.

Indeed, well put. I remember when I first got into DT, I was totally in love with Images & Words. Great music, complicated and listenable at the same time, and heavy. I even liked the vocals.

But then I heard some of their later stuff, like 6 Degrees, and I simply didn't like the music anymore. Sounded like they had stagnated, it just wasn't exciting anymore. Sure, Scenes From A Memory was a brilliant album, but even there you could hear a lot of the elements that helped ruin Train Of Thought. 'Metal' my ass, that album just blew. The vocals didn't fit the music, the production was muddy and the guitars were downtuned to the extreme. And the songs just didn't sound good anymore, which is my main gripe with newer DT.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Prog = moving forwards, not using complex time signatures all the time. In 1992 that *was* progressive,

this is my point. and that is why the GENRE, "Prog" aka complex and often odd time signatures, long songs, etc etc you know all the cliches, is no longer a "Progressive" genre, aka something that pushes the boundaries of what can be done lyrically, technically, and or conceptually.

simply put: prog is no longer that progressive, and i do love progress. therefore, prog is now boring to me.

 

[sknight]

Dream Theater sounds more like a regressive band these days.

+1. Octavarium is good, though. I grew to prefer SX, even though they are harder-edged. I actually prefer my prog softer on the metal (even though I'm into hard metal), but I've also grown to appreciate the brilliance and professionalism of SX recordings.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Wow...I think people need to step back and remember--it's just an album! A $16 thing you can use for a coaster if you don't like it. It's not worth getting this wound up about it if you do or don't like it.

Me...I'm gonna wait, try it, and judge it for myself without worrying about a bunch of technical nitpicking about "Is it prog/progressive/whatever", and que será, será.

 

[Progbass]

You have to remember that progressive metal was first just basic heavy metal which took influences from 70's prog rock, since then it has taken influences from various other genres, this is how one internet dictionary says as an example: King's X has taken influences from grunge, Opeth from death metal, Symphony X from classical, LTE from jazz. So maybe DT:s newest(althought I haven't heard it) has gotten influences from todays metal bands and maybe nu-metal also.

 

[Dark Lucidity]

OMFG tell me theres no nu metal rap junk in this album! please tell me there isn't.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

OMFG tell me theres no nu metal rap junk in this album! please tell me there isn't.

No rap moments.....but there are a lot of parts like 'Elements Of Persuasion,' which I thought was a garbage rock album. A lot of that is because there is lots of downtuning, and the production can be obnoxious.

 

[karelrulez]

There's no rap whatsoever on this album. Look for that on Elements of Persuasion.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Hmmm....someone deleted their post I was just about to quote. I guess they realized how silly they sounded.

 

[Heavenscent]

1. they do not work alone. technical skill without emotion is called warm up practice routines.
2. yes, it does bow to melody
3. i believe you are gravely mistaken. PROG != PROGRESSIVE. i love progressive music of all forms. "prog" as you seem to think it is, however, is losing my interest. technique for it's own sake is stupidity.
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That's where our opinion differs. Technical skill can also result in aesthetic emotion. I can find something beautiful because the techniques used and skills displayed are clever and express dedication in the writing of the piece. Emotion is a very debatable term; it differs for practically every person. Some consider Coldplay to be packed with emotion, I call it feigned melancholy.
In fact, there are techniques for making pieces of music sound dramatic, like minors. There are other things too, but I'm not omniscient regarding musical theory, so I think I'm going shut up right now.

 

[RequiemX]

In my opinion, Octavarium is Dream Theater moving a bit back to their roots after 6 Degrees and ToT. On my first few listens I heard elements of Awake and Scenes. I prefer this album to ToT and I believe that whatever happened in their collective process will benefit future albums even more.

 

[Kenneth R.]

That's where our opinion differs. Technical skill can also result in aesthetic emotion. I can find something beautiful because the techniques used and skills displayed are clever and express dedication in the writing of the piece. Emotion is a very debatable term; it differs for practically every person. Some consider Coldplay to be packed with emotion, I call it feigned melancholy.
In fact, there are techniques for making pieces of music sound dramatic, like minors. There are other things too, but I'm not omniscient regarding musical theory, so I think I'm going shut up right now.

i don't believe technicality in its purest form has any emotional content at all...

it's like i said (twice and in red) technique is a tool, and tools sit around doing nothing unless you use them to build something cool. and most importantly, you can't build a house out of tools. technique itself is not that interesting from an emotional standpoint. don't tell me you cry when you hear chromatic speed excercises.

songwriting is absolutely key and takes precedence far above technique. now, keep in mind i am not bashing skilled musicians. of course, if one is to build something amazing, they must be armed with the best tools.

 

[Moonchild141]

No rap moments.....but there are a lot of parts like 'Elements Of Persuasion,' which I thought was a garbage rock album. A lot of that is because there is lots of downtuning, and the production can be obnoxious.

what is wrong with downtuning? standard 440 has been used for years. its 80's its more modern to have a deeper lower octave. and bands that want to stay relavent cant make music sound like iron maiden's powerslave ya know? while great you have to mix modern elements with your sound. and downtuning doesnt mean bad playing. brainstorm downtunes and they kick ass. so does meshuggah. and most metal bands dont tune in E any more. syx plays in D which is downtuned. so whats the big deal? just because some bands like korn do it doesnt mean its a bad thing when a band with talent does it and makes it interesting.

 

[Kenneth R.]

while that took time to translate from disjointed run-on sentences,

i agree downtuning is itself not "bad". however, there is no reason why any band should feel compelled to use it because it is "modern" or because "all the other bands are doing it." following the herd gets you nowhere.