Dream Theater - Octavarium

[Barking Pumpkin]

I compared them to Pain Of Salvation not in their sound, but in what Dream Theater needs to be doing more of. Someone else called the piano issue "playing outside the box." Jordan Rudess isn't playing "outside the box" on this album. Pain Of Salvation are also progressive without making eight minute radio rock songs.

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

You can't honestly tell me that if you listened to IAW or Awake that it would sound even remotely as predictable or corny as the new stuff, there is absolutely no way. The Dream Theater sound was fresh then, and it has since lost it's soul, it's power, and above all, it's interest.

I&W and Awake sound as predictable as ToT, in fact FII, SFAM, 6DoIT and Octavarium are easily for more unpredictable than their first efforts, specially due to the variety of styles and arrangements, and that's fact. I can bearly listen to I&W and Awake now anymore, because they dont keep my attention as much as 6DoIT or SFAM or Octavarium. Like I said... the way I evolved with my musical tastes for some reason fitted along with DT's evolution, and that's why I keep listening to them. If they would've pulled a SyX and kept rehashing the I&W and Awake sound, they would've become irrelevant and stagnated.

There is a reason why I (save a few songs) only gave Dali's Dilemma "Manifesto For Futurism" and Sun Caged's "Sun Caged" only a couple of spins. Hey the music is fun but the music should've stayed like that in 94, this is 2005, give me something different.

and just as I thought there are the typical "holier than thou" and "dream theater is evolving and you're just not getting it", save it. There are so many different attempts people can make to rationalize what's happening to Dream Theater, save it.

I've come to the conclution that you are only spewing crap about DT as a way to convince yourself of your dislike for DT, hey you dont like the music they are doing now, fine. There's people out there who love it, get over it, it's not the end of the world.

And if you just wont listen to other people's argument and make a rational rebutal... arguing with you is useless.

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

I compared them to Pain Of Salvation not in their sound, but in what Dream Theater needs to be doing more of. Someone else called the piano issue "playing outside the box." Jordan Rudess isn't playing "outside the box" on this album. Pain Of Salvation are also progressive without making eight minute radio rock songs.

You are going to have to be more clear there...

Dream Theater are doing their thing, since it's their music and their sound and their style.

Pain Of Salvation is doing their thing, since it's their music and their sound and their style.

Dream Theater's music is intentionally more "clear", straight foward, technically driven, and "majestic" because THAT's how they intend to sound. Just like Pain Of Salvation tends to sound more "muddy", emotionally driven, more packed, and more vocally driven, because that's how they intend to sound.

You just cant ask DT to change their sound play chuggah chuggah and sing about dragons, just like SyX wont start singing about alcohol.

 

[joeshabadoo]

banana. can we all at least agree on that?

the middle of Sacrificed Sons is not a wankfest!!! they have a cool riff going under it which MP brings out with different beats under it, and then they go into that awesome DUN danaNana DUN danaNana DUN danaNana Donana DOnana part. and i like how JR plays the vocal line of the first chorus during the last chorus. Excellent song.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i agree with Barking Pumpkin pretty much in his review above.

Octavarium, The Answer Lies Within, Sacrificed Sons (sans the middle wankfest), and I Walk Beside You are the high points of the album, with the rest being skippable.

and the production is so terrible (this includes some previous albums as well) that i threw the whole thing in Cubase and re-produced it myself so i wouldn't have to listen to (previously) how inaudible Myung was, and (now) how dead the production sounds.

 

[Jeremy Krull]

Symphony I'm listening to your argument, but the bottom line is you really don't have one. Your talking about "your personal musical evolution" and really seeing as how no one else in the world relates to that, except for you, it kind of has no merit here. Not because it doesn't mean anything, because to you it does, and that's what matters.

and if you're going to take shots at Symphony X, on this forum, why are you even here?

You've stated that you definitely identify with DT's direction on a personal level, and that is great, for you. But I'm in no need of convincing myself of my dislike for this band or their music, I already do dislike them lol.

I feel sorry for John Myung.

I listened to the whole new record and it just sounds really like there is a lack of coherence, they really need an outside producer, not someone who will screw their sound like Kevin Shirley but someone who can at least guide them.

it is pretty obvious where you stand, and even more obvious that you make less of an argument than I do, considering your extremely biased nature on the subject.

Then again, DT wants to hit the masses, and seeing as how ignorant the masses are when it comes to music, then I guess they're doing a good job.

I do not wish to argue with you anymore, I don't feel like going in circles. Especially with someone coming onto a band's forum, taking shots at them, and stating a whole wad of opinion as fact. Nothing personal.

Have a nice day.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I'd just like to note that the dt.net and Mike Portnoy forums have done exactly what they should have done from the start if they didn't wanted discussion of the leak....close the entire forums completely until the album is released. It's ridiculous to keep the forum open and say "anyone who discusses it gets a ban." So they've done something right.

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

Symphony I'm listening to your argument, but the bottom line is you really don't have one. Your talking about "your personal musical evolution" and really seeing as how no one else in the world relates to that, except for you, it kind of has no merit here. Not because it doesn't mean anything, because to you it does, and that's what matters.

and if you're going to take shots at Symphony X, on this forum, why are you even here?

You've stated that you definitely identify with DT's direction on a personal level, and that is great, for you. But I'm in no need of convincing myself of my dislike for this band or their music, I already do dislike them lol.

I feel sorry for John Myung.

I listened to the whole new record and it just sounds really like there is a lack of coherence, they really need an outside producer, not someone who will screw their sound like Kevin Shirley but someone who can at least guide them.

it is pretty obvious where you stand, and even more obvious that you make less of an argument than I do, considering your extremely biased nature on the subject.

Then again, DT wants to hit the masses, and seeing as how ignorant the masses are when it comes to music, then I guess they're doing a good job.

I do not wish to argue with you anymore, I don't feel like going in circles. Especially with someone coming onto a band's forum, taking shots at them, and stating a whole wad of opinion as fact. Nothing personal.

Have a nice day.

How am I biased? Didn't you just saw how I took a dump over I&W, Awake and ToT? it's not like I'm a fanboy who says anything DT does is good, when it's not. Just like I wont say everything SyX does is good when it's not.

What I'm trying to tell you is that, you obviusly have something against the way new DT sounds, or how they write the music, or whatever, yet nothing you say (aswell as me) stands as fact. Just like I do not try to pass my opinion as fact I would like to invite you not to do it yourself. i.e: "I listened to the whole new record and it just sounds really like there is a lack of coherence", wtf? it's like you are nitpicking in order to critize something because OMG Kevin Moore it's not with the band therefor everything sucks! but again... it's you opinion, dont try to pass it up as fact.

But this: "Then again, DT wants to hit the masses, and seeing as how ignorant the masses are when it comes to music, then I guess they're doing a good job. " takes the cake. Talk about progsnobs, dude... really, go outside listen to some Prince and open your ears.

 

[Dark Lucidity]

I love the mix actually..

I love how they boosted the resonance (spelling?) through some of the keyboard solos and when they distort labries voice, reminds me of some of the good parts of this dying soul.

Myung is audible from what i can hear.. not sure what silent song is talking about. lol, maybe he's listening to EoP. Or maybe not.

and the solos in panic attack... the song is called panic attack ffs.. what did you expect?

only thing i hate is jordans fricken carnival music in octavarium.. like the Ayreon keys though! yay!

By the way, what the fsck is this song about.. ive read the lyrics and i still dont get it ^_^ oh and the last instrumental owns with the orchestra.

anyway.. BRING ON THE NEXT SYMPHONY X ALBUM!!

 

[weenur]

So far, I'm liking Octavarium. It's more intriguing than ToT. I'll give a few more listens definitely.

It's disappointing when a band that you like diverges from your taste, but how can anyone fault an artist for doing what they want? I agree that a producer could possibly make the songs tighter, but then it ends up not really being the bands vision of what should be. I don't see visual artists requiring producers, so why do musicians? If the band likes the end product, isn't that all that matters? I certainly wouldn't let the fickle public dictate to me what I should be doing musically.

 

[Luis]

Unfortunatly i agree agree with Barking Pumpkin and ShokaiShimizu: Dream Theater are going downhill fast. Four years without making a good album is somethig to be worried about.

I have heard Octavarium: A couple of good songs here, some nice moments there, Jordan sounds "more human" but overall is a "sub-standard" work IMO.

Moreover, The dirty mix is something i did not expect from a high budget group like DT.

Do yourselves a favor and buy a new masterpiece called: "Room V" by Shadow Gallery. An outstanding return of a group that i thought they were going to retire.

 

[Jeremy Krull]

How am I biased? Didn't you just saw how I took a dump over I&W, Awake and ToT? it's not like I'm a fanboy who says anything DT does is good, when it's not. Just like I wont say everything SyX does is good when it's not.

What I'm trying to tell you is that, you obviusly have something against the way new DT sounds, or how they write the music, or whatever, yet nothing you say (aswell as me) stands as fact. Just like I do not try to pass my opinion as fact I would like to invite you not to do it yourself. i.e: "I listened to the whole new record and it just sounds really like there is a lack of coherence", wtf? it's like you are nitpicking in order to critize something because OMG Kevin Moore it's not with the band therefor everything sucks! but again... it's you opinion, dont try to pass it up as fact.

But this: "Then again, DT wants to hit the masses, and seeing as how ignorant the masses are when it comes to music, then I guess they're doing a good job. " takes the cake. Talk about progsnobs, dude... really, go outside listen to some Prince and open your ears.

hahahaha

First of all, I could care less whether Kevin Moore is in the band anymore, so you missed the mark there. I happen to love Prince, as well as Seal, and the Cure, and many many other artists, so you missed the mark there too. And yea I saw how you "took a dump" over those other albums, I just think you're really reaching to try and rationalize something that, frankly, you can't.

Good day.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

and the solos in panic attack... the song is called panic attack ffs.. what did you expect?

Well.....that they do something creative?

Exactly, the song is called "Panic Attack." How about a solo section that sounds like a real panic attack.....constantly changing times signatures, start stop solo licks, bizarre chromatic runs, eh? That's what it should be, but they just did some generic excercises.

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

Because we where arguing opinions as facts... hence there's no direction to the argument. And as much as I tried to just get you to stop passing your opinions (as biased as they are) as facts, you are just not willing to have a real argument, just scream the other way... so yes, I'm more than willing to stop trying to have an intelligent argument with someone who has an impediment to do so.

 

[turke]

DT doesn't seem to be a prog. metal band any more. I never ever listened TOT or Octavarium for the second time, and i don't think i will take my time to go and buy the new album.
Once there was a progressive metal band with lots of fresh ideas, and good minds that never ever try to controll the minds of their fans on the forums. I totally agree with John Myung's opinion (back pages).

The band is changing, not only the music, but in personality. Mostly Mike Portnoy. He thinks that DT is always doing the biggest thing of all times, and never cares for any comment about the albums. He forgets one thing that, we are one of their fans too. Not only the "whatever DT does, it is great" fans...

 

[Jeremy Krull]

Because we where arguing opinions as facts... hence there's no direction to the argument. And as much as I tried to just get you to stop passing your opinions (as biased as they are) as facts, you are just not willing to have a real argument, just scream the other way... so yes, I'm more than willing to stop trying to have an intelligent argument with someone who has an impediment to do so.

blah blah blah blah blah

 

[Jeremy Krull]

DT doesn't seem to be a prog. metal band any more. I never ever listened TOT or Octavarium for the second time, and i don't think i will take my time to go and buy the new album.
Once there was a progressive metal band with lots of fresh ideas, and good minds that never ever try to controll the minds of their fans on the forums. I totally agree with John Myung's opinion (back pages).

The band is changing, not only the music, but in personality. Mostly Mike Portnoy. He thinks that DT is always doing the biggest thing of all times, and never cares for any comment about the albums. He forgets one thing that, we are one of their fans too. Not only the "whatever DT does, it is great" fans...

Hey Symphony, that might help to read.

oh and btw, my opinions wouldn't come off as hard facts to you if you were able to stomach them.

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

He doesn't listen to his fans? are you KIDDING ME?!? hehehe you may accuse MP of many things... like... overplaying, bad attitude or whatever... but not listening to the fans is one thing you really cant accuse him of.

Because he listened to the fans when he:

1- Recorded the A Change Of Seasons EP
2- Made a Metropolis part II
3- Fought the record label over FII
4- Made 6DoIT a double CD.
5- Recorded a "metal album"
6- Cut down the wanking on Octavarium
7- Released the WDADU LA show on DVD.
8- Made LaB's visual quality top notch and cut down the cheese stuff he did on LSFAM DVD.
9- Has tried several times to get KM plays Space Dye Vest with DT.
10- Fired Derek Sherinian.
And about... a zillion other things...

In fact... I think that DT's lets their fans influence them too much.

And what the hell does a prog metal band have to be like? record the same album over and over and over like Shadow Gallery and Symphony X?

This is what is interesting about prog fans nowdays, change is shrugged off, and bands that dare to experiment are blown off (see Gigantour forums DEP vs SyX)... slowly but surely the genre is becoming more regressive. I mean, when bands like Adagio, Pagan's Mind, Vanden Plas, et al are the ones supposed to be taking the genre foward? damn...

 

[karelrulez]

I happen to like every album DT has put out until now, except the cheesy When Dream and Day Unite. FII and Octavarium feature songs I don't like, but overall Octavarium is definately better than TOT. I like 6 out of 8 songs and they're all very good - awesome.

 

[Jeremy Krull]

And what the hell does a prog metal band have to be like? record the same album over and over and over like Shadow Gallery and Symphony X?

This is what is interesting about prog fans nowdays, change is shrugged off, and bands that dare to experiment are blown off (see Gigantour forums DEP vs SyX)... slowly but surely the genre is becoming more regressive. I mean, when bands like Adagio, Pagan's Mind, Vanden Plas, et al are the ones supposed to be taking the genre foward? damn...

ah, there we go taking cheap shots again. First of all, DT really can't be called prog metal then can they, if they "evolved" as you say. Because if they were prog metal, like the other bands you listed wouldn't they be rehashing themselves like the other bands you listed are? (at least you seem to think)

And also, don't lump all the people who listen to this music as being people who shrug off change. Whether it be little things (like the fact that I felt John West's first album with Royal Hunt blew away most of the previous stuff), or the fact that each Symphony X album has been getting steadily darker and heavier, or that Fear Factory doesn't have Dino Cazares anymore and they still sound pretty darn good, or that Tony MacAlpine isn't in Planet X anymore, take your pick. And yes you are right about one thing, the genre is becoming more regressive, just wait until, what was it, June 6th?