Drumwork

Death-Sean Reinert, Gene Hoglan
The Nevermore Drummer
King Crimson-Bill Bruford
Cryptopsy- Flo
Opeth-Martin Mendez
Aghora-Sean Reinert
Cynic-Sean Reinert
The Police-Stuart Copeland
Tool-Danny Carey
Rush-Neil Peart
Spastic Ink-Bobby Jarzombek
 
"10293847, Im saying the average Jazz Drummer, is better then the average metal drummer."

And what exactly is better? I have a feeling we are going to disagree on what we consider "better". But feel free to continue.
 
Planet X -Moonbabies Virgil Donati
OTV -Serious Young Insects Virgil Donati
Front Page Dennis Chambers/Bireli Lagrene
Cab 1/2/or 4 Dennis Chambers/Bunny Brunel/Tony Macalpine/Brian Auger
 
Minion520 said:
yes he is amazing I also love Van Williams from nevermore, i dont think he gets enough attention.
Click to expand...

Yep, Nevermore's drummer is one of the strongest drummers out there.
He makes me tired just to watch him.
Chris Pennie from Dillinger Escape Plan is also a great drummer that deserves some attention.
 
10293847 said:
"10293847, Im saying the average Jazz Drummer, is better then the average metal drummer."

And what exactly is better? I have a feeling we are going to disagree on what we consider "better". But feel free to continue.
Click to expand...


Take a top jazz drummer, Steve Gadd( you probably dont know who that is) and take a top metal drummer, George Kolias from Nile, Steve Gadd could definetly play everything George could play, But George couldnt play everything steve could play. George Kolias is a great drummer, but most metal drummer takes alot of endurance and speed. Steve Gadd is also a great drummer, he has lots of endurance and speed, but way more finesse, he can play more complex rythyms. There are alot more nuances in Steve's drumming that make him great, lots of dynamics and things like that. Ive Heard some metal drum solos, and I have heard some jazz drum solos. Jazz solos are way more interesting, they are just more creative and have more interesting rythyms, they have speed too, and presicion.
 
I think that's correct in theory......but in actuality I think it would take more work for a jazz drummer to be able to like......play through something like 'None So Vile' live than it would a death metal drummer like Flo who has that kind of playing as part of his style. Not that jazz drummers don't have the technical ability......but people who play in different genres develop specific specialities. Basically if playing double bass at 200bpm for half a song isn't what you need to be able to do for what you play most of the time, it's not going to be your top skill. It's the same for all instruments.
 
"Take a top jazz drummer, Steve Gadd( you probably dont know who that is) and take a top metal drummer, George Kolias from Nile, Steve Gadd could definetly play everything George could play, But George couldnt play everything steve could play. George Kolias is a great drummer, but most metal drummer takes alot of endurance and speed. Steve Gadd is also a great drummer, he has lots of endurance and speed, but way more finesse, he can play more complex rythyms. There are alot more nuances in Steve's drumming that make him great, lots of dynamics and things like that. Ive Heard some metal drum solos, and I have heard some jazz drum solos. Jazz solos are way more interesting, they are just more creative and have more interesting rythyms, they have speed too, and presicion."

=

The more technical a drummer the better.

Technical doesn't equal better. "More nuances" is another way of saying "technical", same thing. Everything else in what you said is subjective.

Most jazz drummers are more technical, but that doesn't make them better. Jazz drummers suffer because they play jazz. The problem with Jazz is that it's structureless and wanders without a direction. Jazz by nature is improvised and the listener is left confused while only the players know whats going on. So the nuances and subtleties are pointless. I don't sense "emotion" in most Jazz. It's technical noise.

I think it's important to take the technical aspects of jazz though and apply them to musical genres that make sense, like it has been done in metal. Classical music is the best of both worlds. The best musicians with the most complicated structures that convey great emotion.

And yes, it's probably hard to believe, but you are not the only person in the world that has heard of Steve Gadd. I prefer Dennis Chambers anyway.
 
I also think a lot of more modern classical music is the best of both worlds. You have the chord flexibility and interesting tonal things a lot of which are jazz-influenced, but then you have the structure and focus in classical. I love playing jazz music, but "jazz standard" material isn't my favorite thing to listen to.

It's also a good point that a lot of the best metal drummers obviously didn't start out getting "metal" training. Metal is a genre that's often derivative of other things, so between it and training for other genres, there's only a little bit of difference, which is why you don't really get "metal" training, you get classical or jazz training. You'll find that most of the people who have always played metal are people who are self-taught and have always listened to metal.
 
Jazz definetly isn't structerless, alot of its improvised, but the term Jazz covers a wide range of music. Say all of it is structurless and acting like you know about it means you obviously dont know about it. I grew up listening to jazz and Ive only been listening to metal for 5-6 years, and the bottom line is, most of the drumming on the jazz albums Ive heard is more difficult then the drumming Ive heard on metal albums. Sure there are some exceptions, Im pretty sure overall George Kolias who I mentioned earlier is better than some jazz drummers, But the bottom line is Jazz is a more difficult artform in the realm of drums than Metal. You mentioned Dennis Chambers, he could kick most metal drummers asses.
 
My list, get ready...

Arch Enemy (Anthems of Rebellion) - Absolute pure, raw, fucking powerful drumming. Nothing fancy, no blasts, but drumming that bludgeons you to death. Daniel's style and presence on this album is undeniable. Bonus - Perhaps some of the best drum production ever as well, at least since Pantera's Far Beyond... album.

Opeth (My Arms Your Hearse) - Martin Lopez shines in his Opeth debut. Tasteful, powerful, dynamic, and most importantly, one of the most "musical" drum performances ever put on a metal cd.

Soilwork (Natural Born Chaos) - Henry Ranta is in my Top 3 Favorite metal drummers. Lots of taste, musical ability, unique fills, unreal production... the whole package. It's a real shame he quit them for a chick. :yuk:

Death (Live in L.A.) - One word, "wow" can describe Richard Christy's drumming on this CD. If you enjoy talented, odd-time, progressive, great cymbal work, great fill drumming... then this album is for you.

Borknagar (Quintessence) - I'm a real big fan of Asegir's drumming on this album. Very good production, cymbal work, drumming that fits the music.

Meshuggah (Destroy, Erase, Improve - Chaosphere) - Tomas Haake may be the top drummer in metal. Groove, odd-time, polyrhythmic, production, power... he's got it all.

Death Metal Drummers - Derek Roddy (Hate Eternal), Flo (Cryptopsy), John Longstreth (Origin), George Kollias, Tony Loreano (sp?), Tim Yeung

Metal Drummers - Nick Barker (ex-Dimmu Borgir), Gene Hoglan (ex-Death, SYL)

Old-School Badasses - Dave Lombardo (duh...), Charlie Benante (Anthrax), Scott Travis (Judas Priest, Fight, Halford), John Bonham (duh...), Nicko McBrain (duh...)

Dave Weckl - Everytime I watch Dave play I stop breathing, the man isn't human. He's so tight and flawless that it's truely unbelievable. He grooves, he's musical, tasteful, fast, technically sound. The man revolutionized modern drumming, period.

Dennis Chambers - Ever watch a video in fast forward? Well that's what Dennis looks like in real time... he's not human either.

Virgil Donati - Australian badass. Fast, powerful, does some amazing tricks and shit around the drumkit.

Mike Mangini - Fastest hands I've ever seen. Flawless one-handed rolls, total showman.

Mike Portnoy - I respect the fuck out of Mike and his playing. He's completely self-taught, and the only drummer to ever attend Berkeley that was self-taught, complete respect for that.

Various others - Buddy Rich (a legend), Louie Belleson (one of the first double kick drummers), Steve Gadd, Vinnie Paul, Lars Ulrich, Neal Peart, man this fucking list could go on forever, but hey... you asked...

:Smokedev:

Yours truely,
Biowaste

PS - I see a lot of you bickering about "who's better, this and that, etc.." - remember this.. mature, respectful musicians know better than to compare musicians in general, especially of different musical genres, it's almost unfair and unjust. Compare apples to oranges, they're both fruit, but what the fuck... As long as the drummer plays what he likes, satisfies himself, has fun, satisfies the fans, that's all that really matters.

You think Phil Rudd gives two fucks about his technical ability? Fuck no, but he still goes out there and kicks ass night after night for one of the most well respected rock bands in the history of music. Is he a bad drummer because he's not technical? Give me a break...

Fuck this "better than... faster than... more technical than, etc." - you guys know better than this... at least I hope you do.
 
BlackMetalTyrant said:
Jazz definetly isn't structerless, alot of its improvised, but the term Jazz covers a wide range of music. Say all of it is structurless and acting like you know about it means you obviously dont know about it. I grew up listening to jazz and Ive only been listening to metal for 5-6 years, and the bottom line is, most of the drumming on the jazz albums Ive heard is more difficult then the drumming Ive heard on metal albums. Sure there are some exceptions, Im pretty sure overall George Kolias who I mentioned earlier is better than some jazz drummers, But the bottom line is Jazz is a more difficult artform in the realm of drums than Metal. You mentioned Dennis Chambers, he could kick most metal drummers asses.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that jazz was structureless at all. Jazz standards are "a lead and improvisation," and I just prefer listening to classical than listening to jazz standards, especially in a studio setting for the jazz. For example, I'd rather listen to 'The Circle Maker' than 'Bar Khokhba,' one being John Zorn's Masada jazz songs expanded in a "classical" setting and the other being the more typical "five bars and an improv" form.
 
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