Dull guitars rock

[Nebulous]

It's funny that this thread has come up. A few weeks ago I did what we are talking about here (in post) to my actual guitar settings on my amp. Bumped up the mids and pres, turned down some highs and even less of the lows.
I haven't put a mic in front yet though.

Ermz, you need to mix some prog or power metal so that I have a decent reference lol.

 

[Ermz]

Well I'm doing the new Vanishing Point so you may just get that soon!

Though Divine Ascension will likely come out first, so there may well be two.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Well I'm doing the new Vanishing Point so you may just get that soon!

New Vanishing Point, and done by the one and only Ermin? Holy fuck so much win!

 

[Melb_shredder]

oh you are doing Vanishing point huh! sweet! i look forward to that

 

[Nebulous]

I heard VP recently lost some members. Hope that doesn't affect your schedule with them.

http://www.ozprog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8775

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I like dark guitars myself, but usually I find even cutting at12k too much, normally my LP is set to like 13.4k.
But I often record my guitars rather dark to begin with, the maximum EQ I'm doing is cut like a dB or two with a very narrow notch between 3 and 5k to remove some fizz.

but yeah, I guess everyone eventually finds his own method and makes it work.

it's very easy to answer the question "I never got why evryone is ctting at 12k) though...
Sneap once said he's sometimes doing it, as a result everyone on this board is copying it blindly and thinks it's the holy grail to cut at 60/12k.

 

[drew_drummer]

Just like to point out... this isn't High-Pass filtering. This is Low-Pass filtering.

High-pass filtering is where you let higher frequencies through, and filter out the lower ones. We're letting through the low frequencies, and killing off some of the high. So it's LP filtering.

Just saw a few people mentioning HP, and it's going to confuse people reading this thread.

 

[kev]

Noticing recently a lot of people are boosting significantly before the cut off. Is there any elaborate reasoning behind that?

 

[SkybluestudiosBEN]

Its interesting that Colin Richardson says he BOOSTS 8-10K for air......but I think really gainy tones definitely benefit from being cut to about 7 or 8K. LOL I think TUE MADSEN Doesnt put a LP filter at all on his stuff hahahaha, but I do like some of his mixes alot.

 

[colonel kurtz]

yea...but some guys will also run a LP pretty low, and then boost above that with an EQ - the concept there being cut out all the fizz and nasty shit, then add a little air afterwards

 

[GarethSE]

yea...but some guys will also run a LP pretty low, and then boost above that with an EQ - the concept there being cut out all the fizz and nasty shit, then add a little air afterwards

I used to be pretty into low-passing at 10khz then shelf boosting at 10khz afterwards

 

[crillemannen]

Noticing recently a lot of people are boosting significantly before the cut off. Is there any elaborate reasoning behind that?

I cut before i boost on every instrument in the mix, no particular reason just been doing it for as long as i can remember

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Noticing recently a lot of people are boosting significantly before the cut off. Is there any elaborate reasoning behind that?

I discovered it by mistake, but it basically acts as a more musical compensation for the highs that you did cut out.

Generally depending on the instrument, boosting right before the cut off frequency of a LPF will make a track go from flat and fizzy to, High Definition lower frequency dynamics kick your fucking teeth in.

 

[Harry Hughes]

As I have been saying in almost every post in this thread so far is that every amp setup and mix will be different, which is why I don't look at arbitrary numbers, and in my opinion any number is arbitrary because the more you fall into that habit, the more you are mixing by numbers. Personally I like to set the most shallow slop possible on my eq and then start dragging the low pass until all the aliasing unmusical noise disappears, then I try to add a small boost right before the cutoff frequency of that low pass and I will move is around to see where it is most effective for that tone.

I know what you mean though, the last big tone shootout that I did I found the guitars to be extremely dark in the mix. In terms of the LPF, all I had to go down to was about 14K when all the noise went away. It still needed a presence though, which I boosted at about 7K, anything lower, like 5-6K while sounding good, made the low end of the entire mix sound extremely boxy and wooly, making the bass and the extreme low mids out of control. And even though I have those settings where they were the resultant mix still had really dark guitars, about as dark as the Nickleback YT video Ermin posted.

Sure, I know what you mean by "mixing by the numbers" and I certainly don't do that, since the whole point is to use your ears first and foremost, but it doesn't hurt to give some general guides as to what can work in many situations.
I certainly don't give a specific frequency to boost, but rather, by giving a range (such as saying that the air lies approximately between 5.5-7KHz), you can test out anything between that area, or even between 4.5-7KHz if you want, give wide boosts, narrow boosts, whatever, ya know.

 

[DeclanWhite]

i already did this.. cos it sounded better to me.. but im a noob

 

[Nebulous]

Yeah, I really don't think there are many people who take or give advice as Ghospel. While we might list specific freq's it's only for a guide rather than a rule.
I've found myself Low passing anywhere between 10k and 15k. Depending on the source and production idea.

 

[Nebulous]

Anyone willing to share pre and post clips?

Seriously, I can't get my head around a LP that low when I've felt that 10k was too low on some of my projects.
I know that even when I leave the filter higher there is still some fizz, but it eventually got covered in the mix.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Marcus, since you brought it up, your EP still gets regular windmilling around here, though I still regret you not taking me up on that stem mastering offer, haha. I think if you took on board some of those posters' suggestions in the original thread about fleshing it out with more production/drum velocity work it could easily have pissed on most 'pro' releases of the last few years.

Haha, thanks man, I appreciate that - honestly, one of the big reasons I chose to do it myself (besides the undeniable pride factor ) was so that I would be able to use it as a reference for myself in the future, knowing exactly how I got it to sound how it does, for better or for worse, and what I'll do the same or diferently next time. When that next time comes, however, I may very well call upon your services!

 

[Deltones]

Interesting thread. But I wonder if the "All or nothing" proposition of LP'ing (be it a around 6k or at 12k) would not be better served with a not too deep shelving eq that would start around 6k or so, then a dramatic LP at 12k. Would that not be the best of both world, i.e keep some of that airiness you guys are talking about, followed by the crap killer higher up?

 

[iHate]

took the 6600hz slider on my Mark IV and pushed it all the way down. Sounded very dull in the room, but put my ear next to the speaker where the mic would be and it was much a much more pleasant sound. Oddly enough, I plugged in my EMG85 guitar and it sounded 1000x better and I actually enjoyed playing it for once.

I could also hear myself sing a hell of a lot easier without all that high end shit piercing my ears. I think LP'ing so low wont give you a super aggressive metal mix, but it will give you a great round tone for stuff with mostly singing. It also helps with letting a mix not kill your ears when you really crank the volume; like on a car's sound system.