Evolution vs. Creation: The Cosmological Argument

[Lies and Perfidy]

Hay!

Behold! Some life hath finally been breathed into this incredibly stale board!

Behold! The one who doth call himself Fezzilla shall surely feel much hatred for this when he doth return, for it doth mock his precious Bible and make a mockery of his God!

Beholdeth! Thiseth archaiceth langaugeth doth beeth stupideth!

 

[Chuut-Riit]

Bwuahahahahahahaha

 

[FEZZILLA]

WEll i see no one here wants to talk rationally about this topic so i won't force it upon anyone.
You've all totallt misunderstood Christianity and the Bible.
Massively misunderstood.
You need to study the science of erosion as well.
And at the end of your study,you'll learn that it is impossible for human evolution to happen.
Good Day
~FEZZ

 

[Iris]

If the masses misunderstood, what makes you think you got it right?

 

[Lies and Perfidy]

Hah hah, Iris, you logic'd him.

Fezzilla, I noticed you didn't reply to my perfectly logical assessment of your arguments...quite possibly because you can't refute it. I'd have a lot more respect for you if you could just admit that there may be some validity to what we're saying. But, no...have fun believing you're right and we're wrong.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Hmm....wow, that guy really is an idiot.

 

[Iris]

Hah hah, Iris, you logic'd him.

Fezzilla, I noticed you didn't reply to my perfectly logical assessment of your arguments...quite possibly because you can't refute it. I'd have a lot more respect for you if you could just admit that there may be some validity to what we're saying. But, no...have fun believing you're right and we're wrong.

Ofcourse we're wrong, we talk about nothing according to Fezz...

 

[Kon16ov]

WEll i see no one here wants to talk rationally about this topic so i won't force it upon anyone.

That's a good start, since it seems apparent that everyone here seems to have a firm grasp on what it is they believe. And that's the key isn't it? Having a grasp on what you believe. If you had one, you mightn't be questioning it...

You've all totallt misunderstood Christianity and the Bible.
Massively misunderstood.

Is it we that misunderstand or you that doesn't understand? The fact that I've been a Christian most of my life, and have explored and even chosen other paths, doesn't irradicate my Christian beliefs, however I feel betrayed by Christianity when the belief system can not, no matter how much it wants to, accept the POSSIBILTY of any other way of thinking. Oh, you can THINK that way, "but you're wrong." That's the problem I have with Christianity, along with the fact that I believe it's horribly out of touch with today's needs for a belief system.
I don't misunderstand the Bible, but I also don't take it literally. It sits on the shelf along with my Teutonic Myths, Scottish Myths, Irish Myths, Norse Epics, etc. If it is truly a part of your belief system, more power to you. If it IS your belief system, then you're lacking the understanding of context and other points of view. If the questions we ask can be answered with one point of view, they're not the right questions.

You need to study the science of erosion as well.

Um, OK. You need to read up on adaptation/*evolution* and, then, understand how erosion is a tool that propels adaptation. Think about adding an inch of sand a year to your living room and figure out how you would change the way you behaved, and, eventually, what things because of multigenerational spawnings in this environment, would have adapted, or *evolved* as a result. Fun stuff, this.

And at the end of your study,you'll learn that it is impossible for human evolution to happen.

You're just mad 'cause you don't have gills, anymore. I know, I am. Seriously, to deny the possibility of evolution is to deny the existence of religion, which has, shall we say, evolved, as well. Humans, for the most part, no longer have foreheads as thick as cinder blocks just as the Catholic church uses many "pagan" rituals. As you evolve, you grow, as you grow, you evolve. There are reasons for genetic research and it isn't just to figure out what the agression gene is and squashing...although, by your argument, that can't happen because that would be, in fact, forcing evolution in humans, which ... is ... impossible.

Sorry to challenge your belief system, but it sounds like the blinders need to come off for about an hour a day. I'm not saying you're wrong to believe what you believe. I am saying you're wrong in telling me/us that we're wrong to believe what we believe. That would be reason #3 I am not a card-carrying Christian today, despite my beliefs that lend themselves in that direction. If I'm worshipping a deity that tells me I can't think for myself, it's time I made up a new one...

Good Day
~FEZZ

Yes it is.
Peace, love, and new religions,

Phil

 

[Iris]

If the questions we ask can be answered with one point of view, they're not the right questions

*you deserve a cookie*
Yet, another one paying attention in class.

 

[Will Bozarth]

If you are familiar with the Sci-Fi network, and other science fiction movies, you'll also realize that it is impossible for little invisible men to rule the world.

 

[kiyardo]

Evolution is unfortunatly taught as fact in our schools today. Yet, as pointed out by many on both sides of the argument, it is simply a theory, just as Creationism is a theory.

I think there are more scientific data in support of Creationism than there are Evolution. There are two reasons why Creationism is not generally accepted in the scientific and secular worlds.

1) It invokes a divine and infinite Creator.
2) It occurs in short time span. The actual creation, according to the Bible occured in 6 literal days as defined in the book of Genesis.

God, by definition is omnipresent, meaning He always was and always will be in existance. He has no beginning. The obvious question is "Do you believe in God?" Many don't, but scientifically it is understood that He (God) is the author of Creation.

Time is something that everyone can obviously relate to. If time increases, it makes processes much more believable. For instance, The Earth, according to Evolutionists is around 4.5 Billion years old, give or take a 1/2 billion years. This would make pefect logical sense considering the Macro-Evolutonary theories in the formation of species.

Creationists believe the Earth is between 6-10 thousand years old. Most scientists will readily admit the unrealiability of carbon and uranium dating methods, and hove found gross inconsistancies in dating objects, especially those where the claims of age fall outside of 5 figures. An example would be dating a live mollusk and finding out the animal is 3,000 years old.

The Bible and true science does support a form of Evolution called micro-evolution or adaption, which occurs within a species and is consitant with the 2nd law of thermodynics or entropy. For instance there is a species of fish that breeds in the deep ocean that have no eyes. They have had no need for them, so as generations pass, they eventually have adapted to their surroundings and eyes stopped developing. Nonetheless, they are still fish.

Macro-evolution or trans-species change has simply not been scientifically proven by science and is a direct violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics givien it's suggestion that species will eventually form a more complex new and different species. There are certainly theories, but when you add up the hoaxes, such as the Piltdown hoax, and the inconsistancies of LUCY and others, one with any trace of logic would have to be skeptical.

There is scientific evidence of a unilateral climate and the pre-existance of a global firmament that many don't explore. These events based on geologic activity and striations support more closely a Biblical chronology rather than an exagerrated span of time.

 

[Kon16ov]

If you are familiar with the Sci-Fi network, and other science fiction movies, you'll also realize that it is impossible for little invisible men to rule the world.

I don't know, man.... you sure?

 

[Chuut-Riit]

If you are familiar with the Sci-Fi network, and other science fiction movies, you'll also realize that it is impossible for little invisible men to rule the world.

Ever heard of Larry Niven's "Pierson Puppeteers" ?

 

[Kon16ov]

Evolution is unfortunatly taught as fact in our schools today. Yet, as pointed out by many on both sides of the argument, it is simply a theory, just as Creationism is a theory.

That's a problem with the schools. They remove God because some people worship different gods, but they still teach evolution because someone on the school board believes in it. The fact that Hindu creation is different from Christian is different Navaho is enough to remove it from generalized curriculum seems logical enough, since we wish to respect the individual students who follow the distinctly different religions. However, the other problem is that people need to have a truth to cling to...

I think there are more scientific data in support of Creationism than there are Evolution. There are two reasons why Creationism is not generally accepted in the scientific and secular worlds.

1) It invokes a divine and infinite Creator.
2) It occurs in short time span. The actual creation, according to the Bible occured in 6 literal days as defined in the book of Genesis.

I agree to a certain extent, but, really, with the idea of time being a man-made construct (the measurement, not the actual linear path of existence), are we REALLY sure it was 6 days? I mean, we didn't exists for a few of those particular days, and even after, we stil rely on phrases like "40 days and 40 nights" to mean "a really long time that we don't really know how to measure, yet." Again, taking things from the Bible literally isn't generally a good idea considering the gap in understanding from its authorship to now.

God, by definition is omnipresent, meaning He always was and always will be in existance. He has no beginning. The obvious question is "Do you believe in God?" Many don't, but scientifically it is understood that He (God) is the author of Creation.

The obvious question to me isn't do you believe in God, but rather, "Will my belief allow me to believe that He JUST IS or do I need to know HOW He came to be. Then again, who said God is a He? Oh, that's right, that Patriarchy...sorry, forgot my place...

Time is something that everyone can abviously relate to.

Relatively speaking.

An example would be dating a live mollusk and finding out the animal is 3,000 years old.

Why is it unreasonable to think that a mollusk could live 3,000 years? Most of the lives of scallops are spent hopping around the ocean floor trying not to get et.

The Bible and true science does support a form of Evolution called micro-evolution or adaption, which occurs within a species. For instance there is a species of fish that breeds in the deep ocean that have no eyes. They have had no need for them, so as generations pass, they eventually have adapted to their surroundings and eyes stopped developing. Nonetheless, they are still fish.

Bingo. This would be evolution. Adaptation is evolution. When a trait or behavior changes, it has evolved. Not saying that Uncle Ted was an ape, just saying that he didn't have a longer middle toe than his big toe, and had horrible balance...now his kids have longer middle toes and don't fall over when they stand up from the table.

There is scientific evidence of a unilateral climate and the pre-existance of a global firmament that many don't explore. These events based on geologic activity and striations support more closely a Biblical chronology rather than an exagerrated span of time.

I wonder, though, why it's unreasoable for the scientific community to accept that the Biblical chronology is actually fairly in "tune" with the "exagerrated" span of time, if one remembers the exagerrated nature of Biblical time...

Or something. Man....time for a nap.

 

[kiyardo]

That's a problem with the schools. They remove God because some people worship different gods, but they still teach evolution because someone on the school board believes in it. The fact that Hindu creation is different from Christian is different Navaho is enough to remove it from generalized curriculum seems logical enough, since we wish to respect the individual students who follow the distinctly different religions. However, the other problem is that people need to have a truth to cling to...

Good point. What they ought to do is recognize the major theories as such and say that they really don't know rather than tacking a bunch of zeros to justify what they think is fact.

I agree to a certain extent, but, really, with the idea of time being a man-made construct (the measurement, not the actual linear path of existence), are we REALLY sure it was 6 days? I mean, we didn't exists for a few of those particular days, and even after, we stil rely on phrases like "40 days and 40 nights" to mean "a really long time that we don't really know how to measure, yet." Again, taking things from the Bible literally isn't generally a good idea considering the gap in understanding from its authorship to now.

Your right to a certain extent, but in the Bible, God defines a day:

Genesis 5 'God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.'

Bingo. This would be evolution. Adaptation is evolution. When a trait or behavior changes, it has evolved. Not saying that Uncle Ted was an ape, just saying that he didn't have a longer middle toe than his big toe, and had horrible balance...now his kids have longer middle toes and don't fall over when they stand up from the table.

Uncle Ted is a guitar player from Detroit, Michican who absolutly rocks. Be careful in your example because if you look at that "adaption" chain you will see that it traces back to apes, whereas makind has always been a biped, and never a primate. The adaptation of mankind involves such things as increased height, longer life, and minor physiologic differences, such as organ size and use, such as the spleen and appendix, nonetheless, human.

I wonder, though, why it's unreasoable for the scientific community to accept that the Biblical chronology is actually fairly in "tune" with the "exagerrated" span of time, if one remembers the exagerrated nature of Biblical time...

Because of how God defines a day. Mankind may have developed the 24 Hour system and the Calender, but overall, the day as defined in the Bible is close enough that it directly contradicts that of evolutionary science.

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

if god existed... he would have smote this thread long ago... it is causing me pain

 

[PlatypusJesus]

I think everyone should believe in what they wish, but to look at one thing, such as the Bible or the theory of evolution, as having all of the answers is absurd, because they are both obviously flawed. And also, the idea that god has no beginning, he just is, is illogical and idiotic to me, just like saying that the universe just exists. There is no difference between the two.

 

[kiyardo]

Lord of Metal,
I can certainly understand where your coming from. It is impossible for man to comprehend infinity. But, think of it this way, if God exists who are we (mankind) to understand everything about him. He is far above us, so we cannot begin to fathom His greatness. We can understand His nature, but not His infinity.

Those of us Bible believing Christians pretty much bank on the Bible as infallible truth throughout. If we don't we cause into question the core basis for our faith (The death and resurrection of Christ). Parts of the Bible we may not understand or may seem like fairy tale, but when there is figure such as God involved, it makes sense that He would alter the course of physics and natures laws to make certain things happen (parting of the Red Sea, healings, etc.)

 

[PlatypusJesus]

Okay, so you believe blindly without question? Wow. So you think that anyone who doesn't believe in god is going to go to hell? Wouldn't that make god a tyrant?

 

[kiyardo]

We beleive, but not blindly. It is totally natural to question God and the Bible. There is a certian amount of faith placement that is directed towards God and His Word (The Bible), but everyone has faith of sorts. It's a matter of faith transfer from that of self faith to faith in God.

According to the Bible, those who don't accept Christ as their savior have condemned themselves to Hell. The Bible says that Christ is the only way to salvation. To understand the logic behind that statement, one must understand the nature of God to an extent. So, it doesn't make God a tyrant, it let's those of His creation choose Him or not. Life without God on Earth is still life, but life without God after death takes one away from God to the only physical place left; Hell.

God would be a tyrant if Hed forced everyone to believe in Him or provided all paths to salvation (The Unitarian Church is an example of Theocratic Tyranny)