Evolution vs. Creation: The Cosmological Argument

That is practically forcing everyone to believe in him. Here is a scenario for you. There's a guy, he chooses to think for himself and not believe in god. This guy also cures cancer, aids, diabetes, asthma, the common cold, etc. He also stops world hunger and brings about world peace. And he also saves a bus full of children. Now, since this guy doesn't believe in god, then you think he should suffer for all of eternity? Because that is what the bible says, right?
 
No. This guy, as good as he may be on this Earth has consiously decided not to believe or have a relationship with God, so in that sense HE made the decision. Therefore, he condemns his self.

It would be like me handing you a wrapped gift (full of $10 million worth of gold. You can choose not to open it and it will be there unopened unused. You will suffer the consequences of not opening it by not reaping the benefits of the gift, riches for a lifetime.

Same thing with God. If people choose not to accept Him, they choose not to "open the gift" so to speak.
 
So you can say that that would be just? How? Do you have no compasion? This man is intelligent enough to see through the idiocy, bigotry, and brainwashing of the Christian religion. Can't you see? Why would a just, a forgiving, a caring, a kind god punish a human just for not believing in him? Why would he punish him, when he has done nothing but good? That's what the bible is supposedly about right? And this man has done more good than any so called christian ever does in a life time. If this god would punish this man, then this god is a tyrant. This god doesn't care for his creation, all he cares about is power. No just and forgiving god would punish a human for all of eternity just for not believing in him. Here is what I think. First, the bible is man made, just as the christian religion is, and just as every other religion and theory is. As humans we seek answers, but the answers to this question is not available so we create our own answers. Now, I look at the creation of the bible a couple of ways. One is that those who created it, created it to symbolizes human nature and human life. They based the characters of the bible, such as God, on people that they existed in their world. For example, God would be a tyrannical king who forces everyone to believe in him, and only him, or they shall be punished forever. So in other words, the bible is just a really big literary book. Now, that is the way that I like to look at it. The other way that I look at it is that those who wrote the bible did it just for power. They knew that the way to force everyone to believe in their religion was to tell them that if they didn't, they would be punished for all of eternity. Of course, those who wrote it were not very intelligent, because of the obvious loop-holes, such as the one that I stated to you. I mean, if god is perfect, there can be no loop-holes in his religion, correct?
 
kiyardo said:
No. This guy, as good as he may be on this Earth has consiously decided not to believe or have a relationship with God, so in that sense HE made the decision. Therefore, he condemns his self.

It would be like me handing you a wrapped gift (full of $10 million worth of gold. You can choose not to open it and it will be there unopened unused. You will suffer the consequences of not opening it by not reaping the benefits of the gift, riches for a lifetime.

Same thing with God. If people choose not to accept Him, they choose not to "open the gift" so to speak.

Ok, to tell you the truth according to what i believe in..
That gift, is in every one, if you believe in god, or not.
It's the spirit and we all know that here.
We all have that spirit, otherwise we wouldn't even exist.
I believe in me, said that before and i still do.
And whatever the name is, that gift is the spirit.
Why should i start to believe in god, as seen as the almighty creator the one that rules the universe to get that gift, if it's already with me, as if HE decides where i'm gonna go...gimme a break here!
and yes, if that means i condemn myself, so what!!
I am responsible for my own choices and i'm comfortable with that.
If i have to blame someone at the end of my life because it was a mess?
I will not start to blame god for all of that, that's my own fault.
I could also say, that my spirit is god, my guidence, afterall..it's energy.
Since i start to trust that gift, i realised it was with me all the time and that i just recently opened up for it because i finally believe in what makes me a human being. It's the energy we all have, some know how to use it, some don't. For many times, people asked me if i was gifted or psychic..i just know how to use it because i connect with it, i believe in my senses. It's all energy that i feel, i can't see it...but i pick it up.
Ok, that raises questions..i have asked them myself many times and i don't have an answer either. I just know i believe in what i feel, that's no proof at all BUT i know i can share that energy, i can make it go around, i can make it flow...i just have to open up and pass it on.
I know it's been passed on to me too and ever since i start to trust it instead of fighting it, i finally found something to have faith in and it's bliss! I finally have the idea i am alive, how silly that may sound to some.
Ignorance is bliss, indeed! I just trust it, i have faith in me...i stopped questioning or doubting it, fighting it and hiding it from others because i was afraid people would judge me for that or, to speak with my dad's words: say i'm a witch or a total nutcase for being able to feel what he couldn't feel.
So, what i basically did, i killed myself for hiding my spirit to others, so that they could not hurt me. And well, i had to learn it the hard way, i still got hurt regardless of what i was hiding.
It's just time to fly out with it and i no longer care what others may think of it, as long as i am able to feel it, they may think what they want! The most important thing for me is, i have something to share and that feels so good.. it makes me happy.
Afterall, i can not proof it, NOT in words but i feel it...and, as Dearth told us, in Confusius' words: It's the fasting of the heart!!
Well, that's how i see it.
Raise an eyebrow, speak if you got something to say or shut the fuck up if you want to judge me about it, had that, been there.. too much coldness and hatred where jealousy and oppression come from!
i just hit rationalism, indeed thoughts that come from the mind.
The mind is a wonderfull place, but useless without the heart, in my opinion. This here? Are just words, ramblin' out from the mind but mine finally connected with my body because i finally accept what has been given to me at birth...the spirit....LIFE
 
*applauds* Very good, very good indeed. I agree, except I feel a little differently about the spirit, but you already knew that. For those who don't though, I believe that the spirit is a part of us that we do not experience until our mind and body die. When that happens, we (our spirit) goes on to experience a new life, a new world, new senses, new colors. To me, heaven would be boring. There would be no more challenges, everything would be perfect. *yawn* What makes life great is the challenges in it. Without them, life would be a waste, and also boring as hell. I agree with the idea that god is energy that creates, but I have to disagree with those who think that this god is a personality that decides where we go in the *afterlife*. Oh, and kiyardo, if you follow the bible word by word, then you have to believe in the divine plan, correct? Well, since you obviously also believe in free will, then wouldn't that cancel out the divine plan? I mean, if everything has already been decided for us, then we wouldn't have a choice in what we did in life, correct?
 
I also want to add that I do believe that there are certain people, such as Iris, who are able to tap into their spirit and experience the celestial powers that it has, but these people are few and far between. Therefor, I said that it is something that we do not experience in this life, because most people do not experience it. I just thought that I should clear that up. And, as with any other belief, there is the question that cannot be answered, and that is: how did this energy come into existence? Well, I have no idea, and that is why I don't even believe in my belief, atleast not too much.
 
Iris said:
Ok, to tell you the truth according to what i believe in..
That gift, is in every one, if you believe in god, or not.
It's the spirit and we all know that here.
We all have that spirit, otherwise we wouldn't even exist.
I believe in me, said that before and i still do.
And whatever the name is, that gift is the spirit.
Why should i start to believe in god, as seen as the almighty creator the one that rules the universe to get that gift, if it's already with me, as if HE decides where i'm gonna go...gimme a break here!
and yes, if that means i condemn myself, so what!!
I am responsible for my own choices and i'm comfortable with that.
If i have to blame someone at the end of my life because it was a mess?
I will not start to blame god for all of that, that's my own fault.
I could also say, that my spirit is god, my guidence, afterall..it's energy.
Since i start to trust that gift, i realised it was with me all the time and that i just recently opened up for it because i finally believe in what makes me a human being. It's the energy we all have, some know how to use it, some don't. For many times, people asked me if i was gifted or psychic..i just know how to use it because i connect with it, i believe in my senses. It's all energy that i feel, i can't see it...but i pick it up.
Ok, that raises questions..i have asked them myself many times and i don't have an answer either. I just know i believe in what i feel, that's no proof at all BUT i know i can share that energy, i can make it go around, i can make it flow...i just have to open up and pass it on.
I know it's been passed on to me too and ever since i start to trust it instead of fighting it, i finally found something to have faith in and it's bliss! I finally have the idea i am alive, how silly that may sound to some.
Ignorance is bliss, indeed! I just trust it, i have faith in me...i stopped questioning or doubting it, fighting it and hiding it from others because i was afraid people would judge me for that or, to speak with my dad's words: say i'm a witch or a total nutcase for being able to feel what he couldn't feel.
So, what i basically did, i killed myself for hiding my spirit to others, so that they could not hurt me. And well, i had to learn it the hard way, i still got hurt regardless of what i was hiding.
It's just time to fly out with it and i no longer care what others may think of it, as long as i am able to feel it, they may think what they want! The most important thing for me is, i have something to share and that feels so good.. it makes me happy.
Afterall, i can not proof it, NOT in words but i feel it...and, as Dearth told us, in Confusius' words: It's the fasting of the heart!!
Well, that's how i see it.
Raise an eyebrow, speak if you got something to say or shut the fuck up if you want to judge me about it, had that, been there.. too much coldness and hatred where jealousy and oppression come from!
*BOOM*..i just hit rationalism, indeed thoughts that come from the mind.
The mind is a wonderfull place, but useless without the heart, in my opinion. This here? Are just words, ramblin' out from the mind but mine finally connected with my body because i finally accept what has been given to me at birth...the spirit....LIFE!!

-x-
Iris


hahahahahhahahhha....

Christ was and is a better CULT leader than you. hahahahah. You should sleep with FEZZILLA...you two have lots in common. hell, you go to church everytime the door opens, you just want everyone here to think YOUR COOL.....

im gonna laugh over this bullshit you typed for a long time. So is lots of other ppl just after i copy and paste it to an EMAIL hahahahahahah

thanks for teh laugh, and ill thank you for all the ppl im going to email this garbage to for their laughs as well ....


hahahahahahahahahahahha

the only 3 things you can open and pass along is : 1)your mouth, 2)your PUSSY, 3)YOUR ASS.....thats it hahahahahahahha.......and you know what those doors are opened for.....i hope anyway.


one more time....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAA


what im sayin is, your so called essay is very christian related, subtract words liek GOD and CHRIST etc.....just fill in the names, and you have the bible......
 
You're a bastard led. Okay, for one thing, it is nothing like the bible. She didn't put a face on "god." She said that if it exists than it is an energy. She also did not say that if we don't believe in this, then we shall all be punished for all of eternity. She didn't mention a tyrannical god at all. She just said that she thinks that we all have a spirit. Just because you believe in a spirit, does not mean that you have to believe in god. There is a lot of difference between what she believes and the bible, and if you cannot see that led, then you are blind, just as those who follow the bible word for word. Sorry led, but you were being a complete fool in that post.
 
Oh, and if you take the words god and christ out of the bible, then the bible would no longer be the bible. In fact, if you replaced god with king, christ with prince, satan with rebel, angels with serveants, humans with slaves, the virgin mary with the girl who the king raped, the husband of virgin mary with the guy who no one knows, take all of the myths and revelations out, and replace moses with a pimp, then the bible would make a lot more sense.
 
i posted this, and it didnt post...

here goes again.

If you feel that way, then thats your opinion. Not mine. If you wanna forget me over IRIS, then thats your choice.

I dont go for Iris, i didnt go for Iris, and im not gonna go for Iris, no more than i go for FEZILLA...you and i have and will see some things eye to eye.....not all things. If you throw me out, do it. If not, ill still be there/here as your friend. Its known amongst most of you that realy would rather not even see her name, much less reply to her. Her FAKENESS gets to me. IT just got to me this time. And weather you agree with me or not, you could add a few words and youd haev CHRISTIANITY, or at least a leg of it from what she typed.

As i said, you make the choice concerning me, its all up to you....i ment no offenc to you when i replied to what i see and saw as a fuckin funny ass reply that was ment to impress or be takjen to heart, and i mean no offence to you now. .....I am me, take me as i am, or leave me on the side.....up to you pal.
 
Lord of Metal said:
Oh, and if you take the words god and christ out of the bible, then the bible would no longer be the bible. In fact, if you replaced god with king, christ with prince, satan with rebel, angels with serveants, humans with slaves, the virgin mary with the girl who the king raped, the husband of virgin mary with the guy who no one knows, take all of the myths and revelations out, and replace moses with a pimp, then the bible would make a lot more sense.

sure it would. BUt i still say there are simularities between the 2.

tell ya what, im low on time, ill pm you or email you on some things later....dealing what you wrote above....i haev lots in my bag for religion talks.

remember, im a bible reader, not a christain.
 
Yeah, it was just the way that you worded your reply that got to me. I don't hate you for what you said, I just hate what you said. We are both the type of people that say what we think, so no led, I don't have a problem with you at all. I meant no offense what so ever to you in that post, I just didn't say it because I hate to say "no offense."
 
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I mean, I was just defending Iris, I would.........oops, I am being a post-whore in the wrong thread. Oh well, I am THE Post-whore Lord. Now, like I was saying. I was just defending Iris, I would do the same for led. Even though this is just the internet. :lol:
 
Luckily, I have a very small group of friends (five to be exact), so everyone gets along. :lol: Yep, I said five, that's all. I'm not a people person.