First band that aren't "friends". Need help!

[Ganks]

Hey guys,

So I've got a band coming to record with me this weekend.

Here's the gear we'll be testing out.

AMPS:

Mesa Single Rec
Peavey ValveKing
Randall RH300 (Possibly blown tubes. Not sure.. Haven't been able to get a good live sound out of it.)

CABS:
Ampeg 4x12
Randall 4x12
Marshall 4x12 (Celestions)
Crate 4x12 (Celestions)

Possible other options:
POD FARM.


The band says they really want to record their amps, but this frightens me because I'm not that experienced with recording actual amps. I'm definitely going to try the Fredman micing technnique (SM57 & Sennheiser e609 Silver).

But other than that, I'm not sure what I'm doing when it comes to micing an amp.

I'm definitely going to be taking DI's of their tracks just in case.

But yeah..
Any suggestions you could give?

PS - They have a very raw & chaotic sound very close to "The Chariot" or "Norma Jean".
They are specifically recording WITHOUT a click track to maintain some rawness.

Thanks guys.

 

[AllanD]

Without click? Good luck man. About the amps, just put the mic in the spot where the cone meets the speaker. Usually never has bad results.

 

[Ganks]

Yep, no click.

They've recorded before so hopefully it'll work out.
I just let them know that I couldn't quantize and edit their drums to a grid.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

For rawness? I've heard that one before. No great suggestions. Just try stuff. I'd start simple, get an amp sounding good in the room and put one mic on it and if that's good then play around with dual micing etc.

 

[Ganks]

Yeah, I know.
I'm crossing my fingers for this one.

I've been to a couple of their shows. My band has actually played with them.

And their sound is VERY raw. But personally, I just like recordings to be tight.. No matter what the style.

 

[roy22341]

I wouldn't even bother with the two mic technique. Just put one of your 57s slightly off the center of the cone about an inch from the cloth. Adjust from there.

Good luck with the no click thing.

 

[crazykarl]

Don't know how many mics or inputs you have, but just record the guitars live with the drums. Nothing more raw than guitar bleed in the drum mics. Has to be done well though, otherwise you end up with St. Anger.

 

[Ermz]

Yep, no click.

They've recorded before so hopefully it'll work out.

Don't EVER give a band the benefit of the doubt like that. You will learn to regret it. Unless you're positive that they are able to live up to your own standards of 'tight', you will always be underwhelmed. Go into the session expecting the worst, and you will be in the mental ballpark to handle what is to come.

Not sure if you have the capability of reamping, but a decent option would be to track the guitars with PODFarm then mic the amps later in your own time. If you're not comfortable mic'ing amps and really don't know what to shoot for then odds are you're not going to pull a great tone straight off the bat. Ask the guys here that have honed their skills at it over the years. The ability to listen and hear what you need from that mic and amp doesn't come overnight.

Start small. Don't do any dual-mic techniques until you become acquainted with what a single mic on the cab can give you.

Good luck. Just bear in mind these small projects don't have the balance of the world hanging on them. It's okay to make mistakes and learn.

 

[Brendan.Clace]

A few things here that are really huge red flags for me.

1) The BAND telling YOU how THEY are going to record in YOUR studio.
2) The fact that you are willing to allow them to record without click, even though I doubt you have much experience in that sort of situation.

 

[crosstalk]

+1 to tracking DI's and then reamping with the amps so that you have more time to get a good tone. I also know that there's always the pitfall of thinking you have a great tone, tracking, and finding it just doesn't do it in the mix.

+1 to not letting a band tell you how you'll record them. I do understand that you may be taking what you can get at this point. I must laugh at being raw and playing to a click supposedly being opposites. Sounding raw does not equal sounding sloppy. It's also great fun punching it just about anything not done to a click let alone drums. Then again, raw probably means throwing it all down on the first take and sitting there telling you how to fix it and/or mix it.

I personally like things to be tight, but I've done several projects where we tracked with a click and left it at that. Generally not all that tight, but there is a bit more cohesiveness to it and punching things in isn't quite the nightmare.

I've also heard one too many times: "Yeah, we've recorded before." I found out that this can mean: "Yeah, we plugged a mic into this one guy's computer a hit record on the sound thingy." "Yeah, we went to a studio where we all played at the same time and the guy burned a cd when we were done playing the song." "Yeah, our friends dad has a mixer in the basement and he recorded us."

On the plus side, if they're super raw, you're practically done the moment you hit the stop button. If you're not able to work with reamping, go for the standard SM57 at 1-inch off the grill where the dust-cap meets the cone as your starting point. I'd probably try the rectifier through one of the Celestion cabs.

 

[Ganks]

A few things here that are really huge red flags for me.

1) The BAND telling YOU how THEY are going to record in YOUR studio.
2) The fact that you are willing to allow them to record without click, even though I doubt you have much experience in that sort of situation.

What does this have to do with tips/suggestions as far as recording this band?
And what are your "red flags" indicating?


I quite know how to track a band to a click.
And as far as them telling me how they're going to record in my studio...

I live in south Georgia. I'm not a professional. I have a VERY limited clientele here. I'm basically taking what I can get. I just recently started to be able to charge for recordings.

 

[solphilcox]

what's all the click fascism going on here? strangely enough, a lot of bands don't want their recordings to sound like a casio keyboard demo track. The chariot's last 2 records have been possibly two of the best metal/hardcore productions of the last decade, there is nothing wrong with wanting a 'raw' sound. Also it is an absurd idea that it is in some way rude or out of place for a band to tell a studio engineer how they want to record their music.

 

[JamesNorman]

I wouldnt use the vavleking man, i recorded my friends band and could not get a good tone with any setting any mic i have and any mic position. Use the recto all the way.

 

[PhilR]

Click tracks arn't magic spells granting instant tightness and professionalism. I've seen more bands degenerate into sloppy useless unmusical messes as a result of trying to play to a click than the reverse.

The problem is too many bands don't understand clicks. They'll happily claim that yes, the song is the same tempo throughout and yes, they have practiced. Only when you hit record you realise that the song naturally gains pace in the chorus and slows down for the middle 8, and by "practiced" they meant "one of our guitarists has sat down and worked out half the song in guitar pro, but our drummer has only heard the track twice from another room and we found our bassist on the street this morning".

 

[Notuern]

Randall RH300 (Possibly blown tubes. Not sure.. Haven't been able to get a good live sound out of it.)

Wow... blown tubes in a solid state amp, thats fuckin' impressive!

 

[greyskull]

if they want a rawer sound, my prefered way, and its a ballache.... is to program A LOT of tempo changes. one per section almost to help maintain the feel/vibe of the song but still keep it tight.

 

[plague_rider]

I always recommend using a click, just due to recording bands that go out of time, you'll find a massive difference between parts of the songs that have repeated, and it doesn't make them sound robotic, hell look at Lamb of God or other Groove based bands...

Greyskull: I do like that idea, i've read interviews with andy about changing tempos, even within songs that have one general tempo, just increasing the BPM slightly in choruses and such...


Ganks: Mate, really, don't let this band tell you what you're doing, they're coming to you to record them, you want to do a decent job, if you need to quantize anything later, you're gonna have trouble doing it without a time reference, and if they're drummer messes up anywhere and doesnt admit to it, you're gonna have a bitch of a session getting guitarists to play to it...

 

[amarshism]

Just make them all track live and dub vocals. Part of that style of production is the sloppiness and room sound that envelopes the whole mix. Tell them it's raw.

 

[JonWormwood]

Where in south georgia are? I'm Jax Fl

 

[Ganks]

Wow... blown tubes in a solid state amp, thats fuckin' impressive!

Haha.

It's a tube amp.
I'm not too sure of the model though.
I just guessed by pictures. (I'm not a guitarist.)