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[hyena]

What about a train? I'm not sure I remember where you live right now (Germany? Belgium?) but it might help you save money. Maybe check with Matse or someone.
Whatever you do, anyway, do not plan to spend the night or part of it at the train station: it's definitely not an airport when it comes to the "coming out in one piece" factor.

edit: Ok, maybe I should learn to read people's location.

Seconded about not sleeping at the train station - really dangerous.

As for the train, I tried to say this before - won't work. Bruxelles Charleroi or Frankfurt Hahn or Hamburg or Berlin or wherever in Germany to BGY -> between 18 and 50 euro round trip, with Ryanair, depending on when you leave (the earlier in the morning on Friday, the cheaper the flight, going all the way down to free seats). THERE IS NO TRAIN CHEAPER THAN THAT, if we exclude jumping illegally on freight wagons. For that kind of price, I cannot even take a train from Rome to Milan and back.

@Cuthalion: boat and one visa only?

 

[hyena]

train: it would costs +/- 76 euros if i reserve my ticket now. Thats already better than a flight (around 100 euros). Only not so great thin: between 9:30 and 10:30 travel time from here (i live not so far away from Cologne)

i wouldnt try pending the night in the train station, they are normally cloded at one point, and teh security wouldnt be really good
There is a youth hostel in Milano but it is not in the city center so i dont know when the last bus/tram/subay to get there is scheduled. (it is cheaper than an hotel, but all i can find online are prices separates dormitory rooms for men and women, which is not great when you travel with your bf Maybe they do have rooms for 2 persons).
for interested people:Youth Hostels: http://www.hihostels.com/web/index.en.htm
Warning: many hostels ask you to pay a little more if you are not a member of the Youth Hostel network.

Listen, I'm going to answer to this one and then leave it at that because it's bloody irritating.

You live near Cologne, you say. This is cut-and-paste from Ryanair.com, only an example and other options are available.

Friday 31st October
Düsseldorf (Weeze) 11.20 - Milano (Orio al Serio) 12.50
1 Adult 0,00 EUR
Taxes 15,77 EUR
Total 15,77 EUR


Sunday 2nd November
Milano (Orio al Serio) 13.15 - Düsseldorf (Weeze) 14.55
1 Adult 0,00 EUR
Taxes 17,98 EUR
Total 17,98 EUR


So you have your round trip for 15,77+17,98 EUR. Tell me how this makes 100. According to my calculator, it makes 33.75 EUR, plus what is needed to get you to Weeze. Now, Google Maps tells me that it's 113 kms from Koln. Bahn.de, as far as I can understand, lists a price of 13.40 EUR if you're under 25, which is admittedly a bit expensive for such a short trip, but still - 33.75 + 13.40x2 is still 60.55 and not 100 (Ryanair buses from stations are usually free, but there's no info on the site, so factor in 5 further euros: it makes 65.55).


Also, seeing how the flight times are decent (ie not 4 in the morning) maybe you can ask a friend to drive you there?


Not to mention that I don't know a single thing about where other convenient Ryanair airports are located, seeing how I don't have any experience with that part of Germany. I just clocked the first one that was on the map.



Now to the youth hostel. There is this weird idea around that hostels are the be-all, end-all of cheap and good travel. The website tells me that the hostel is located in the Fiera (Fair) area. A quick check on Google Maps reveals that it is pleasantly located on the other side of town compared to the venue. It's ten kilometers, but how do you think you're going to cover that late at night when the metro is closed? Either you have a rental car or you take a cab. I'll eat my hat if you can cross the whole city at night on a cab without spending at least 10 euros each. So your price is: 19.50 each for the hostel, plus 10 minimum for the cab, and 1 further euro (plus about one and a half hour of your time) if you get to the venue with public transport. Total 30.50, which means saving a whopping SEVENTEEN EUROS each compared to my very naive idea of booking a double room, where you can have your privacy, in the Best Western around the corner from the venue.



Of course, you can tell me that rahvin is going to pick you up from/drive you to airport/hostel/venue, so your total savings would amount to 28 EUR... which is still less than the difference between your imagined flight cost and the real-life one, and doesn't give you any privacy. Compared to my original plan, free ride = no rental car, so you save max 58 EUR compared to the baseline estimate. But say you want to contribute to fuel expenses anyway - and you would, as you're civilized. It's not that big.


This said, I'll really leave you all to your own devices - either people know to trust someone who's been in 150 cities the world over in the past few years (mostly on their own and never with a package trip or similar) or they don't, it's not my fault if you'd rather buy into the backpacking/uncomfortable travel mythology than actually save money.

 

[Dark_Silence]

i looked form a flight on friday and come back on saturday, it would then cost around 76 euro with the train ticket to go the airport here and to come back. the flight is 48,74 euro including taxes and everything

for the youth hostel, i never said i really wanted to go there because i didnt know how the public transports are in milan. it is just an idea i mentionned. i never went to one myself, so i dont know how convenient they are.

i didnt imagine the flight costs, i just looked for other companies because i dont like ryanair.

 

[hyena]

i just checked, it would really cost 50 euros, but then i have to add almost 34 euro for the train ticket to get to the airport and to get back here, and to get from the airport to milan, i dont now how much it would costs (probabily depends if someone can pick us up at the airport, or if we are a group travelling together with the train, maybe there are special prices for groups).

no good train in BGY but if you read my original post or check hertz.com you will see that renting a car is very cheap (20-30 EUR per head for the whole weekend so it's there and back) if there's a group.

 

[Dark_Silence]

no good train in BGY but if you read my original post or check hertz.com you will see that renting a car is very cheap (20-30 EUR per head for the whole weekend so it's there and back) if there's a group.

if someone has a driver licence and if we can organise something, it is a good idea. I unfortunately dont have a driver licence

i found some hotels for +/- 50 euro for a double room

 

[hyena]

i found some hotels for +/- 50 euro for a double room

be very careful with that (looking for reviews on the internet does not guarantee accuracy but could be a good start). if you find a one-star hotel in the venue area for that price, chances are that hygienic conditions could be really, really awful. i don't know if there is an ibis or similar budget hotel in the area, but really - do stick with the big brands if you don't find reviews that sound trustworthy, family-run 1-stars could be anywhere between a real great bargain and roach-infested dives. i remember booking a two-star in central rome when i had to sit my pre-hire exam and had little money; i ended up in a terrible hovel run by an incompetent gaggle of chinese illegals, and the second floor landing actually caught fire during one night, not to mention that i had to shower at a friend's as there was a surprising variety of fauna in the shower box, which had clearly not been used for about 5 years. i survived, but wouldn't recommend the experience to anyone.

 

[Siren]

@hyena: what's the best western hotel you mentioned? i love best western, but i need to look into single rooms.

 

[hyena]

@hyena: what's the best western hotel you mentioned? i love best western, but i need to look into single rooms.

There you go: http://www.bestwestern.it/BW/EN/98144_hotel_Milan.

It's more or less 2km from the venue (look for the hotel address and then the venue address "Corso Ventidue Marzo, 32, 20135 Milano" in Google maps; I take it that the venue listed on the website, the Rolling Stone, is confirmed).

However, there are no offers for single rooms (we, the discriminated singles). To get one, you have to shell out 81 EUR minimum. Maybe you can share with someone?

Otherwise, there's still the Hotel Diablo in front of the venue:

"Our first three rules are: NO discussions of politics, NO discussions of religion, and... Always Drink ! Drink! Drink!"

 

[rahvin]

Regardless of how each of you manages to solve the money issue, you should really take heed of hyena's advice when it comes to where to spend the night for an additional reason: you might think that "terribly uncomfortable" is fine for one night, but if you add "deadly tired", "a little tipsy", and "in a foreign country where people generally don't speak my language", you should see that the step from uncomfortable to painful is a small one. I'm only a moderate (heh) traveller but I can confirm you are going to save money only if you don't immediately go for the option that's apparently cheapest, in terms of accomodation.

edit: Cuthalion, of course we'd like to meet you. Leave Ankh-Morpork for a couple of days, the Patrician won't hold it against you!

 

[Dark_Silence]

be very careful with that (looking for reviews on the internet does not guarantee accuracy but could be a good start). if you find a one-star hotel in the venue area for that price, chances are that hygienic conditions could be really, really awful. i don't know if there is an ibis or similar budget hotel in the area, but really - do stick with the big brands if you don't find reviews that sound trustworthy, family-run 1-stars could be anywhere between a real great bargain and roach-infested dives. i remember booking a two-star in central rome when i had to sit my pre-hire exam and had little money; i ended up in a terrible hovel run by an incompetent gaggle of chinese illegals, and the second floor landing actually caught fire during one night, not to mention that i had to shower at a friend's as there was a surprising variety of fauna in the shower box, which had clearly not been used for about 5 years. i survived, but wouldn't recommend the experience to anyone.

eww i have never seen such an hotel, but when i looked for student rooms a few years ago, i remeber seeing fast insalubrious rooms for a really abused price.


the 50 euro hotel is way too far away from the venue, in the venue area i only find hotels for 60-70 euro.

One of them has really bad reveiews, and it is said that it is held by chinese, and it is not clean... maybe the people who run the hotel where you went in Rome moved to Milan worst of it all, it costs 160 euro for a night in a double room there

 

[hyena]

maybe the people who run the hotel where you went in Rome moved to Milan

that's a distinct possibility: maybe one of their customers finally threatened righteous punishment if they didn't flee the town immediately.

the most mind-boggling experience i ever had with cheap hotels, however, was ages ago in Paris. i was probably just out of high school or something and i was going to London by train, stopping in Paris on my way. it was the very very early days of internet bookings; i thought i would be technologically savvy and booked a room in a hostel for what would now amount to about 12 euro.

when i arrived, of course they didn't know anything about my booking, and the hostel was full. they sent me on my way, suitcase, backpack and all, to a place on the other side of town (i think i can still remember the neverending walk) that apparently wasn't even there. then i realized i had to climb up to the top floor of this large tenement, where i found two dodgy-looking arabs who handed me a key for a slightly higher (ca. 20 euros) price. my room, which had no ensuite bathroom, was one of many around an internal courtyard, a bit like what you find in american motels, only on the inside.

there were very many items of fancy female underwear hung out to dry on clotheslines around the courtyard, which made me wonder. a young woman in skimpy clothes came out of her room for a smoke, then another similarly dressed one did the same from another room. by then the penny had dropped, but i was 19 and i found the whole idea of staying in a brothel's spare room quite hilarious. i so want to go back there.

this said, tomorrow i'm leaving for finland, but there won't be any involvement in prostitution rings this time i'm going to land in helsinki, then drive to porvoo, largely because of an apparently famed gourmet restaurant (yeah, i know, gourmet and Finland is smile-worthy, but one has to try). then it's off to lappeenranta and lake saimaa (sp?) - i was planning to go and eat the celebrated local lamb in Lemi, but these people are entirely crazy and only serve food at 3pm, 4pm, 6pm, under strict reservation conditions. so if there is any Finn reading this who would like to give me advice on nice hangouts in lappeenranta, many thanks in advance. after that it's unfortunately back to Helsinki, as I have meetings at the Bank of Finland on Monday through the end of the week, but well, it's not as one can drive around Karelia forever, heavy metal or no heavy metal.

 

[Villain]

i'm going to land in helsinki, then drive to porvoo, largely because of an apparently famed gourmet restaurant (yeah, i know, gourmet and Finland is smile-worthy, but one has to try).

Must be not that famed around these parts, because I've never heard of such in Porvoo - but it's a nice town, much nicer than Helsinki, I think. An old friend of mine lives there.

If you are looking for nice bars in Lappeenranta(?), the only advice I can give you is to avoid a place called Totem - unless you want vomit on your shoes. uke:

-Villain

 

[Dark_Silence]

the most mind-boggling experience i ever had with cheap hotels, however, was ages ago in Paris.

that reminds me something: when i was about 15 i went to Paris with my school. We only stayed there for a week end, and we slept in a cheap hotel (somethink like Formule 1") somewhere in the suburb area of Paris. When we arrived there, there were whores on the street waiting for people to stop and take them in their cars, we even saw a guy take one of them

Then some of my classmates had weird jamaican room neighbors who smoke weed all the time

The breakfast was really horrible too

Ans speaking of whores, there is this one place in the north of Germany (please Taliesin, help me, i dont remember the name) where there are whores trailers along a road.

 

[Siren]

My most recent travelling experience leaves me unfazed by semi-decent looking hotels (though i admit hyena's stories beat mine by far). I just spent 6 nights in a double room packed with 3 beds and 2 more people, the toilet/shower was somewhere outside, the toilet flusher broke down all the time, we almost never had running water due to network problems, the lamp occasionally worked, and breakfast didn't even cross our minds. The view was great though, and so was the company. We ended up paying 15 euros each per night (from 19), and we even thought it was a blessing, cause when we arrived on the island everything was booked and we had nowhere to stay. Thank god the only underwear on clotheslines belonged to us.

@hyena: i don't rule out sharing, but being a girl leaves me with few options. i'll have to check with a couple of friends first. thanks for the links, i never could imagine the possibility of staying in a hostel named Diablo opposite to a venue.

 

[Cuthalion]

@Cuthalion: boat and one visa only?

Boat from where? Macedonia doesn't go out to sea


@rahvin Yeah, i think that the Patrician would understand.

I'm interested in renting a car and getting a room in that Best Western near the venue. I have a drivers license too
But i think that my flight lands at the Malpensa airport, does that complicate things?

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

If you are looking for nice bars in Lappeenranta(?), the only advice I can give you is to avoid a place called Totem - unless you want vomit on your shoes. uke:

-Villain

Totem isn't so bad, but then it's not really any good either. Just another pub except with rockabilly people. So not that good.

Birra is a pretty nice pub with a decent beer selection of lagers, ales and bitters plus some different stuff. Located in the city center on the pedestrian only street between the harbor and the church park. Personally I'd suggest going there.

Pub 55 is nice too, but it's probably nostalgia for me since not much happens there these days. And also probably not your thing.

You should check out the harbor and have a beer on one of the boats there, I suppose it's somewhat atmospheric. If you're going early enough you can eat at one of them as well, I don't know about the quality though, probably nothing special.

Tassos is the only worthwhile restaurant in the city as far as I know, but then, I don't know much.

You could possibly get a boat tour around the lake from the harbor, I don't know about the times, you'd have to go and ask.

Not sure if it's too late and you're off to Helsinki again anyhow.

 

[hyena]

@Cuthalion: sorry for being indescribably ignorant of your country's geography. I really am a dick - of course there's no sea. And you're close to my own country as well, one thinks I should know better...

As for landing in Malpensa, no, it doesn't really complicate things if we form 2 groups. For example, if rahvin and I come from Torino we can pick you up on the way.

Anyway I think that if we want to arrange this trip without big headaches we need to have a very tight organizational schedule. I can look into the times, routes, bookings etc, but I need to know who's coming and what options they want very soon. In this case we can be sure of getting the best prices.

Maybe we can have a final list of who's coming around Sept 20-25? So that everyone has time to check their budgets, schedules etc? Of course if some of you are sure they're coming already they can book their planes, and then we'll arrange the rest around that.

@TFH: Thank you

I am actually reading this in Helsinki, yes, but turns out I subconsciously heeded your suggestions anyway In fact, I tried to take a boat trip around the lake from the harbor, but failed because my Lonely Planet guidebook lied and did not mention that there's no 6pm departure on Saturdays. Anyway, I just went for a nice walk so no harm done. And indeed I did have a drink (more like three) at Birra, after dinner right in front of the place (Wolkoff Café). And a walk around the Linnoitus area. It's a nice town.

 

[Cuthalion]

@Hyena: It's no big deal really I wish we had a sea, haha.

I think that 20-25 september is reasonable time to have a list of who is coming.
And i think that i will need some hotel reservations to show at the Italian embassy and i guees that i will need them sooner than 1st if October since i don't want to take any chances of getting scheduled for the visa interview after 1st of November So, that could be a problem for me

 

[Siren]

I wish we had a sea, haha.

You can always become a part of Greece, haha.


Those dates are reasonable for booking. If i decide to come i think i'll end up using Easyjet too, so far it has the best prices i could find. So it would be Malpensa for me too.

 

[Cuthalion]

You can always become a part of Greece, haha.

As tempting as it sounds, naaah, i think i'll stick to air transport