Future in Recording

Mendel

Lag Arkane
Jun 11, 2005
1,330
1
38
36
The Netherlands
www.mendelb.com
I am at a point to finish school and choose a different education.
Would it be wise to choose a recording education ?
Is there any future in making money with this ?

@ Andy Sneap, Kazrog, Moonlapse or anyone who can make a living out of recording:

What would you give as advice ?

On a dutch guitar forum they told me to keep it as a hobby to get some extra cash.
 
What they told you at the guitarforum seems like the best option to me, just learn for yourself, because most schools know as much as you do, atleast were i went then.. if teachers start asking you for compressor settings and if they can loan your preamps you should get the fuck out hah

Get your info from the internet and other people who know there shit and make some money by working in the meantime.
If you have cool results, people will pick you up and it will become clear when to make it your dayjob.~

Doing livesounds is a good learning experience and income next to studios stuff aswell.

JB!
 
What they told you at the guitarforum seems like the best option to me, just learn for yourself, because most schools know as much as you do, atleast were i went then.. if teachers start asking you for compressor settings and if they can loan your preamps you should get the fuck out hah

Get your info from the internet and other people who know there shit and make some money by working in the meantime.
If you have cool results, people will pick you up and it will become clear when to make it your dayjob.

JB!

+1

My music technology course at college was a total shambles, ive learn't 7000 times more just on this forum alone, then take it from there.
 
lucily the course im on now is ace. im not going for the learning side of things (however as all the guys there are still working in the industry im gonna be picking up tips all the way) but im there caus of the use of the amazing facilities available and kit.
 
People will always tell you to keep it as a hobby, because they are dumbasses who are afraid and have no initiative.

There is no market that is good for making money. None. There are millions of programmers, lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. so the same competition that you have in music exists in any other industry.

If you are good and have the work ethic and inter-person skills you will succeed in any biz. If you don't have that, you won't succeed anywhere.

Do what your heart wants you to do and dont waste your time on bullshit ...
 
+10...
As usual, schools have interesting courses, but in the practice they suck. Moreover, often who has a school education is worse than who has a "self-education" because in a school they train you in a standard way (this is the good way to work, that's the wrong way to work)...but if you learn by yourself you can experiment, make mistakes, etc... and learn step by step.
 
I am at a point to finish school and choose a different education.
Would it be wise to choose a recording education ?
Is there any future in making money with this ?

@ Andy Sneap, Kazrog, Moonlapse or anyone who can make a living out of recording:

What would you give as advice ?

On a dutch guitar forum they told me to keep it as a hobby to get some extra cash.

I got given the 'don't do audio as a full time career, it won't work out' speech many times, by many different people. Whether through sheer determination or idiocy (I still can't determine which it was) I persisted and went through 3 years of audio school. Those 3 years were mainly for the sake of my parents, as they wanted me to have a degree, as they couldn't accept that academic qualifications have no bearing in this industry. During that time I tried to make as many contacts as I could outside of it, brushing up on live sound, recording and sitting in on sessions wherever possible. The audio school was a complete waste of time, and like many others here, I would suggest interning at a studio instead or hooking up with a live production company or freelance engineers who can show you the ropes.

You want as much on the job practice as possible. Assist at studios, simply sit in on sessions, use all your contacts to make that happen for you. Watch, listen and learn all the time. Forums like this one are also an invaluable source of information. Absolutely priceless. I learned just about everything I know between here and experimenting.

As far as the validity of a career in audio.... It's hard. There are no two ways to think about it. It's punishingly hard to make a living out of this and in most peoples' cases it would be advisable to have a fall-back career to sustain a living. If you have the drive, aptitude, know-how and persistence, then I believe you can make it work for you. It's worth noting that to separate yourself from the pack in these days of everyone packing a project studio, you need to eat, breathe, live and shit audio engineering/production for a few years before you hope to start seeing anything back from it.

Out of sheer force of will, I've focused entirely on audio for the last 4 years, with no back-up career. That's how long it took to finally develop a skillset strong enough to reap some rewards and see returns for my work. I'm currently getting booked quite strongly for the first half of this year, with a number of full-lengths and EPs confirmed.

If you think of it from a business POV, it's about filling a niche. If you are providing services that people want, then you will get booked. In my area I'm unaware of there being any good metal engineers, so I do my best to fill that void and keep the bookings coming. Techniques learned here, passed down from the pros, are invaluable in staying ahead of the competition and continually securing work.

Anyway I hope that rant wasn't a bit too long and anecdotal for you. The basic jist of it is this:

-You can make a career out of audio, but it's hard.
-You need to be 100% devoted, all the time.
-Be willing to work for free/petrol money/lunch for a year or two.
-Stay away from audio schools.
-Get 'on the job' experience. Assist at local sessions for free, hook up with live guys and do some live sound for spare change.
-Get good at what you do.
-Make sure there's a market in your area for what you're doing.

Best of luck with it, man.

PS. If you do end up at an audio school, MAKE USE OF THE FACILITIES! The best work I ever did was still back when I had access to a facility with a near 'limitless' time frame. Do as much as you can, experiment with different artists. Hold onto the good ones and keep working with them, pushing both parties to churn out increasingly better work. If anything, the audio school can give you a head start on your portfolio due to studio access.
 
good advice here

i definitely believe that if you want to suceed at something enough, you will get your chance. i have been doing this for a couple of years, basically working all through my holidays, without a day off and sometimes working untill 2 in the morning for days on end. while im at uni, i stick to mixing projects from outside - sometimes you work with good bands, sometimes with not so good ones, but there is something to take away from every session. before you know it the better bands will be spreading their stuff around and it will all filter back to you.

also something that i have put off for far too long (although have recently changed :)): learn pro tools
 
I am at a point to finish school and choose a different education.
Would it be wise to choose a recording education ?
Is there any future in making money with this ?

@ Andy Sneap, Kazrog, Moonlapse or anyone who can make a living out of recording:

What would you give as advice ?

On a dutch guitar forum they told me to keep it as a hobby to get some extra cash.

I did not read the other's posts but. I know a lot of people say : don't go to a school.

But in netherlands it's quite different. A lot of conservatorium of arts are delivering Bachelor and Master degrees in Music Production and Composition. To me, it's not just audio school. The programs are also much oriented to creation and composition.

I'll apply for this programm in Artez, Enschede. I would not go to any school in Belgium nor in France though!! A lot of them are only "eduction centers". You don't get an valid european degree.

But in NL, you get to meet a lot of great musicians + pros and as those schools are also Music Schools, you'll get a strong musical education : that's ALWAYS a plus.

You get to use the studios in the schools and the equiment in there. You'll get to meet profesionnals during internship and so on.

The program in Utrecht looks really really cool too.
That's what the Textures guitar players have done.

I am also doing that because I live in a lost ass place in the world and there are no musical culture amongst people. All the bands sucks. There are no musicians and no education.
 
Thanks so much for all you input. I was beginning to get down on myself because I have been really trying to hone my mixing skills at home and make the best use out of the few recording sessions I get to do at school for a year now. I still feel like I don't have the skills necessary to make a great mix and my recording sessions don't ever run quite as smoothly as I imagine, and there always seems to be one or more flaw in the recording that pisses me off to no end. Maybe i just need to swallow shit for 2 more years, according to erm. Bah, I feel like a creep, I know a lot of your names by browsing these forums yet I've never thrown mine out there. I'm jared.
 
wouldnt bother with a school, most studios wont care,
A good attitude and great tea/coffee making skills are more important
 
A good school (and I mean good) can give a) basics, b) more in-depth stuff if you want and c) contacts. It's what I got and I couldn't be happier.

Then it's a matter of perseverance and dedication if you want to make a living out of it. I sure ain't yet, but I'm slowly and steadily heading in that direction. (How do I know? I'm taking it there!)
 
I think that what's important is that everyone who wants to go on this route should go into electronics/computing engineer, and then work their way into audio. I was going to do that but I was quite a stupid asshole when I was 18 so I decided to go into this shitty stupid art course that just sucks so damn hard, I'm at the last year and I have yet to say that I learned something useful that I haven't learned through reading books, this forum and practicing. So I believe it's too late to go into that route again as electro/computing is a 5 year course here, and I'm 21 now, I know I'm young but I don't feel like "wasting" any more time... What kind of previous education do you have? just High school? Is that how you spell it? Here in my country it's different, I think you should study like hell and go into one of those courses and then go into an audio education, at least if your audio pursues don't turn out how you wanted, you can still do it as a hobby and have a really good back up resume as electro/computing engineer, which will give you a job almost for sure
 
A good school (and I mean good) can give a) basics, b) more in-depth stuff if you want and c) contacts. It's what I got and I couldn't be happier.

Then it's a matter of perseverance and dedication if you want to make a living out of it. I sure ain't yet, but I'm slowly and steadily heading in that direction. (How do I know? I'm taking it there!)


That's what I've done.

I've taken the classes a lot further outside, speaking to all of the lecturers (engineering, electrical, computer science.. etc - all of those dudes know relevant stuff, as well as musicians in the area).

I applied for a techy job at a venue,.. and I had to sit and do random jobs around the venue for two years before I got my place.

My studio work has taken a back seat in work terms - since I've had to work really had at getting the contacts, and agreements in place that have allowed me to get into the studios and work. This is where my night-time research and home practice really help.. that way I'm prepared and know exactly what I'm doing from 9am till finish each day.

University / Music courses teach you about planning and organisation - not just audio. So, it's up to you - if you want to be a great engineer, then stay at home and do it.

If you want to learn about how to compose industry standard letters and invoices (music business stuff) then it might be a good idea to go to University and really work through it. Asking loads of questions, and making a lot of contacts.

It's starting to pay off now, 4 years in.
 
I do agree to a large extent with this Smy & Moonlapse & the guys, however I think the music market is substantially different to averge occupation out there. I was stuck in exactly the same situation as mendel 3 years ago, and I was either going to go the music engineering route, or the route i chose which was studying business & computer science. Why did I choose this route? Because no.1, i dont believe there is a stable income to be had from music in the long run (Mendel has specifically asked about money, how many of you dudes at studios are saving for retirement in some form of pension plan or similar for example?), and no.2 i feared destroying my favourite hobby over time. With the music biz as it is atm, and especially the newer DIY approach to recording, I think its only cementing this belief more for me.

I would urge Mendel to take on a more "formal" education subject (I believe he already studies business), and build on the music side of things in his spare time. This way I think he wont shoot himself in the foot in years to come, and will be able to earn a great living as well as maintain the enthusiasm for music that he has. Who knows, if the real love is there then a combination of something like a business degree with a knowledge of music could fuse a great partnership.

My £0.02

P.S

Sorry to be a boring bastard :lol: !
 
People will always tell you to keep it as a hobby, because they are dumbasses who are afraid and have no initiative.

There is no market that is good for making money. None. There are millions of programmers, lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. so the same competition that you have in music exists in any other industry.

If you are good and have the work ethic and inter-person skills you will succeed in any biz. If you don't have that, you won't succeed anywhere.

Do what your heart wants you to do and dont waste your time on bullshit ...

that is the best advice anyone can give you really but it is also the hardest one to swallow. judging by the fact that you posted it on the boards and which is therefor some sign of insecurity I would really think this through if I was you.

I myself will stick with hobby and extra cash since I already have a dayjob and I don't wanna switch, it would be different if I would just be starting.

if you have the SLIGHTEST doubt and you don't find yourself 110% dedicated behind what you wanna do just let it be and take something you are more confident with. I don't agree with smy1 in that it applies to any market, it depends on the demand and the effort you'd have to put into it really.
 
I completely agree with you kev.
As far as the UK is concerned, a degree in something more conventional will be worth more in the long run, across the board.
Myself i'm about to start a physics degree in september, but anyone in the UK wanting to take something intrinsically valuable as well as music based, i recommend something like the music technology systems degree at york.
 
Everyone advice is really good. When it comes to competition, you'll find yourself playing a strategy game. Starting small, building a base, getting your defenses up and then expanding.

Those are all metaphors for which I'm sure I don't really need to explain. What makes your base better then the next is that is has something that not many does and therefore yours can destroy the others. lol In other words when starting out worry about the competition in your area. Do some research and find out how they work, offer something they cannot and make sure you're good at it. Advertise that you're good at it and that you're the only one that offers it.
Psychologically humans want the best for themselves so there's almost a guarantee that you'll get the client.

Once you've defeated that base (area) start thinking bigger and better. I think the worst mistake I made was thinking too big too soon. Now I get most of my clients via word of mouth.

Just thought this method of thinking could help if no one has thought of it.
 
If you're thinking about music and gear all day and are quantizing drums or recording stuff in your sleep than you should go for it.

I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life 4 or 5 years ago, but now I'm probably more sure than I've ever been about anything. I'm currently halfway through my last year at the university studying something completely. I'm not certain I'm even going to graduate because I am not remotely interested in most of the things we study there but I don't even care much because I want to dedicate myself to music to the full.

You just have to decide what your priorities are. If you want to be able to spend money for leisure, etc you should probably look elsewhere, not only because you won't be getting huge amounts of money but because you'll want to spend tons of money on gear.