god doesnt exist in the form that the old religions propagate
- Thread starter pagan2002
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Strangelight
steak(knife) no more
StevenK
Member
Allan
New Metal Member
It's all just people too weak to accept all that responsibility. Sometimes I wish I could believe in a God again, but hey, too late.
Allan
New Metal Member
The end was being 16, in sunday school in Kansas, big US. I asked the priest what he reckoned, who'd had a better shot at gooing to heaven, this saintlike man, living his whole life being charitable and nice to people, but not giving much time or thouht to religion ever. Or this selfish suit bastard, who on his deathbed swore his eternal love and pennance to Jesus Christ. He nswered the second one.
Strangelight
steak(knife) no more
I've had very similar conversations with God botherers. I said surely God would understand and do the right thing, otherwise I'm a better person than God. They get a bit hot and bothered thenAllan said:
Allan
New Metal Member
It would be easy though. Another thing that bothered me back then, was this basket going around after every service, and people chattering about who had given the most to the church. There was a sweet girl there though.
Anyways, I had this teacher in religion class, who I really liked, he was on about sth called existence theology, sounded dead clever and nice. About the kingdom of God being amongst us, meaning the whenever we make a connecion with someone or whatever, that's heaven and stuff. Loads about forgiving people whilst expecting nothing in return too. I never really got to understanding why it had to be called theology though, was all a bit vague.
(I have this strange feeling I've said all this before, on this forum too)
Anyways, I had this teacher in religion class, who I really liked, he was on about sth called existence theology, sounded dead clever and nice. About the kingdom of God being amongst us, meaning the whenever we make a connecion with someone or whatever, that's heaven and stuff. Loads about forgiving people whilst expecting nothing in return too. I never really got to understanding why it had to be called theology though, was all a bit vague.
(I have this strange feeling I've said all this before, on this forum too)
Nature can at the very most be a work of art; it cannot be the Artist. It is an embroidery, and cannot be the Embroiderer. It is a set of decrees; it cannot be the Issuer of the decrees. It is a body of the laws of creation, and cannot be the lawgiver. It is but a created screen to the dignity of God, and cannot be the Creator. It is passive and created, and cannot be a Creative Maker. It is the recipient, and cannot be the source.
Bastet
ironing...
Palmer Eldritch
looking outside inside
Bambi said:
That's an interesting theory. Are there any explanations why exactly religious societies were "fitter"? Anyway, that sheds new light on the downfall of communism: the secular socialist states were naturally inferior to the God-fearing US of A. Watch out, Sweden!
Bambi said:
I'm all in favour of no church coming forward then. Most of the religious atrocities were commited by organised religions anyway.
I find it a bit weird that most religions have this sort of "middle management types" between believers and their gods. Why does everybody need a man in cloth to tell them what their respective holy books really means? What kind of mixed message is that? Shouldn't they have seen the light already or something? (It's not like that in Hinduism though. Hindus can actually "see" their gods and are supposed to feel their divine energy in intense prayer. Must be great.)
O you obstinate denier! Your egotism has made you so stupid that somehow you decide to accept a hundred impossibilities all at once. For you yourself are a being and not some simple substance that is inanimate and unchanging. You are like an extremely well-ordered machine that is constantly being renewed and a wonderful palace that is undergoing continuous change. Particles are working unceasingly in your body. Your body has a connection and mutual relations with the universe, in particular with regard to sustenance and the perpetuation of the species, and the particles that work within it are careful not to spoil that relationship nor to break the connection. In this cautious manner they set about their work, as though taking the whole universe into account. Seeing your relationships within it, they take up their positions accordingly. And you benefit with your external and inner senses in accordance with the wonderful positions that they take.
If you do not accept that the particles in your body are tiny officials in motion in accordance with the law of the Pre-Eternal and All-Powerful One, or that they are an army, or the nibs of the pen of Divine Determining, with each particle as the nib of a pen, or that they are points inscribed by the pen of Power with each particle being a point, then in every particle working in your eye there would have to be an eye such as could see every limb and part of your body as well as the entire universe, with which you are connected. In addition to this, you would have to ascribe to each particle an intelligence equivalent to that of a hundred geniuses, sufficient to know and recognize all your past and your future, and your forbears and descendents, the origins of all the elements of your being, and the sources of all your sustenance.
To attribute the knowledge and consciousness of a thousand Platos to a single particle of one such as you who does not possess even a particles worth of intelligence in matters of this kind is a crazy superstition a thousand times over!
If you do not accept that the particles in your body are tiny officials in motion in accordance with the law of the Pre-Eternal and All-Powerful One, or that they are an army, or the nibs of the pen of Divine Determining, with each particle as the nib of a pen, or that they are points inscribed by the pen of Power with each particle being a point, then in every particle working in your eye there would have to be an eye such as could see every limb and part of your body as well as the entire universe, with which you are connected. In addition to this, you would have to ascribe to each particle an intelligence equivalent to that of a hundred geniuses, sufficient to know and recognize all your past and your future, and your forbears and descendents, the origins of all the elements of your being, and the sources of all your sustenance.
To attribute the knowledge and consciousness of a thousand Platos to a single particle of one such as you who does not possess even a particles worth of intelligence in matters of this kind is a crazy superstition a thousand times over!
Palmer Eldritch
looking outside inside
Malaclypse said:
Same goes for science and political theories, maybe even art. Personally, I think it doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, but the fact that there isn't anything to grasp. Just figures and patterns you choose to see in the surrounding chaos.
Malaclypse said:
Spot on. We're doomed to eternal ignorance.
Religions aren't really crumbling though. I recently attended a "International Christian Fellowship" mass. Trendy teenies jumping up and down, clapping and singing "Jesus is my love song". It was Beatlemania minus the fainting.
blackeyed
original rude boy
Allan said:
er ar allan just because some dick head sunday school prick said the second one doesnt mean that it was the second one - how the fuck does he know, does it bloody matter which one got into heaven thats bloody irrelevant, that suggests that you'd only want to follow religion / lead a good life to get into heaven - completely focusing on the end and what benefit would come to you from it.....which is ironically the sort of attitude that you chastise the second man for having, holding adimantly to religion so he could get into heaven.
it really pisses me off this sort of dicussion, everyone wants to be right, to get one over on someone else - you've people saying its a pile of bollocks trying to hammer their opinions onto other people and probably trying to provoke the believers and then you've got religious people hammering their faith on others. im not just talking about this thread btw, im talking in general. when are people going to realise that it doesnt matter, the end of it all doesnt matter, its about right now. i mean you're not in the frigging future, you're in the present.
i happen to believe in something completely different anyway but that doesnt mean i have to bollockise everyone elses beliefs.
huhuhuh religion is a waste of time pile of shite huhuhuhuh
Palmer Eldritch
looking outside inside
Falconspirit
I Died A Little
I do believe in God, not because my parents told me to, not because I have been told so, not because I have been taught so. It was my own decision, I haven't read the bible yet. But what I can say is that, nobody can now for sure if God exists or not. It all depends on you, your faith, how you think and who you are. I can't prove there is a God. But I am sure there is some divine power that created all of this. Well only one thing is certain, "time will tell."
Palmer Eldritch
looking outside inside
blackeyed, I like discussions about faith, right now, in the frigging present. Not just talking about this thread. There are worse ways of spending your time. Like, working. I'm with you on the "to each his own" thing though, but that doesn't mean a little talking and screaming won't help to get to know each other better.
This isn't really a heated discussion yet. Watch out for this:
Opeth are the bestest band on earth!
Seriously, they are good.
There are worse ways of spending your time. Like, working. I'm with you on the "to each his own" thing though, but that doesn't mean a little talking and screaming won't help to get to know each other better. This isn't really a heated discussion yet. Watch out for this:
Opeth are the bestest band on earth!
Seriously, they are good.
Allan
New Metal Member
blackeyed said:
Ehh, that was sort of my point, that focus led to that question and all that you know. Of course that wasn't final, I've had plenty time to learn. My mom's been head of the congregation here for 10-15 years. US experience was just bringing it all to an extreme.
But back then I was self-righteous and quick at passing judgement,, so it all seemed like a clean break. Listened a lot to PL's Shades of God to.
I remember back in my childhood, all the kids were saying that, that they believed in God because otherwise they wouldn't go to heaven. I always told them that if they believed in heaven in the first place, they'd had to believe in God anyways.
Oh well, this just might be my most incoherent post ever, sorry.
Allan
New Metal Member
blackeyed
original rude boy
this is what i meant, why are people so arsed about heaven- heaven if its there should be a bonus at the end of living a great a happy and helpful life.Allan said:
Allan said:
like most of my posts - i read over them and i cringe 
zupi_clone
Member
Palmer Eldritch said:
id be very careful about posting things like that around here, if i were you
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