Headphone Suggestions - Take 3!
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
The graph explains why the M50s sound so mid heavy, and are so pleasant to listen to for long periods. The HD-650s burned me out the moment I put them on. Weirdest sounding high mids - it was like a constant phasing effect. Just did not gel with them whatsoever. The graph also explains why balancing low-end on the M50s isn't treating me well... massive hole around 80hz land. The AKG graph kinda worries me - on paper it looks like they might be everything I hated about the 650s, only worse. Definitely have to try those before buying.
egan.
daylightdies.com
I feel like there is an inherent Senn sound that pervades all of their open phones. It's weird b/c they don't all sound the same but every pair I've used had a particular thing going on in the mids.
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
Ermz, the K702s may not be for you. They are a bit perhaps "hollow" sounding overall, but I attribute that quality as really a lack of stuffiness. You really get a great aural picture of the sound-stage of the recording with these phones and the high-end detail is fantastic. A newer pair of headphones that has made me cringe is the Beyerdynamic DT770Pro... they had the most unrealistic frequency response curve I have ever heard. The mids were very static and unpleasing.
Headphones are a battle, I've owned close to 10 pairs myself. I find myself switching between the K702s and the Extreme Isolations with the red inner ear felt.
On that note, have you tried contacting anyone on this forum in your area who may have a set you can "rent" from them? Gear choices are rough man. I've owned 27 amps and 12 cabinets in the past two years; at least I finally found out what was working best... on that note, I need to change my signature
Headphones are a battle, I've owned close to 10 pairs myself. I find myself switching between the K702s and the Extreme Isolations with the red inner ear felt.
On that note, have you tried contacting anyone on this forum in your area who may have a set you can "rent" from them? Gear choices are rough man. I've owned 27 amps and 12 cabinets in the past two years; at least I finally found out what was working best... on that note, I need to change my signature
How tight is the low-end on them? I'll primarily be using them to balance crucial low-end relationships within a mix, as well as automating delay/verb throws and the like, so an open and realistic sound stage is definitely a bonus.
ze kink
THE BLACK WIZARDS
It's quite common knowledge that the bass on the K702's is quite subdued, uninspiring and small. Even by looking at the measurement graph I posted, you can see that there's far less bass than on the other cans. Most guys I know who own them or the K701's use them for classical and jazz, not really any rock, metal or electronic stuff.
By the way, just went out and picked up a pair of ATH-M50's. My first impressions were quite lame, but I suspect that the pair I listened to at the shop weren't really burned in yet. Pretty sure I'll be fatigued by them much faster than the HD-650's because of the pronounced presence/sibilance, but that also addresses my problem with judging that area when using the HD-650's. I also felt that the low-mid area at about 300-600hz is really recessed and hard to get into, and that the bass is quite boomy and "slow", although pleasantly pronounced. But if I stop comparing them to the HD-650's (which to me, are better than the ATH-M50's in almost every regard) and instead think about e.g. the character of my old K240's, they start to seem rather surprisingly good considering their price. That, and these are closed and quite portable, which is ultimately what I was after in a second pair of cans anyway. All in all, I'll have to see how I feel about them when I burn these in and get more hours of use with them. And damn, you could even drive them with an iPod with them sounding just right, definitely a big big plus too.
Aaron Smith
Envisage Audio
I've been using my Sony MDR-7506 cans for about seven years now, and I've really grown to love them. I never disliked them to begin with, but I'm at a point where I can very confidently trust them and instantly identify mix deficiencies. I'm actually quite fond of the low end on them, and I can easily hear and define the relationship between the bass guitar and the kick. I know exactly where the lead vocal should hang, and I can EQ vocals quite confidently too. I know that everyone seems to think the 7506s are too harsh, and I'm fairly certain you've used them and don't like them, but it's just strange to me how I am able to use them so effectively, despite the widespread scorn they get. I actually really like the sound of most music on them. Perhaps it's partially because I've used them throughout my entire audio career thus far, and as my brain has become better honed and trained to perceive subtleties in sound, they've been with me throughout that whole psychological process? I don't really know how to explain it, but they just work for me. Them and the Opals 
xFkx
gain induction
well, the thing with k701/702's etc. is, that the bass freq's are a bit... hmm.. tamed, compared to the rest of the spectrum.
But at the same time, if you allow your ear to focus on what you are doing, you can here everything, it's like beeing neo and seeing the matrix for what is it, notching the kickdrum's low from 55 to 56 Hz, changing the q from 0.75 to 0.7, changing the lo-shelf from +1db to +1.5.db. it's an excellent tool
on the other hand, probably all the other high end headphones can do this too... except sennheiser hd series... god I hate those
But at the same time, if you allow your ear to focus on what you are doing, you can here everything, it's like beeing neo and seeing the matrix for what is it, notching the kickdrum's low from 55 to 56 Hz, changing the q from 0.75 to 0.7, changing the lo-shelf from +1db to +1.5.db. it's an excellent tool
on the other hand, probably all the other high end headphones can do this too... except sennheiser hd series... god I hate those
Suddenly, I like you a lot more!
So... basically back to square 1 here. There seem to be no headphones which cleanly fit the bill?
Taking it back to the drawing board, these are the criteria:
- High ohmage (ideally beyond 200ohm). Don't care how they sound with iPods.
- Flat, present low-end.
- Non-grating/weird/phasey high mids.
- Doesn't feel like it was made for Toys'R'Us *cough*hd650*cough.
- Spectral response as similar to Opals as possible.
Are there any models at all I should be looking at? Do I need to expand my price bracket into the $1-$2k mark?
I have some K702's arriving in a couple of days so I'll report in on my experiences with those then.
I do say though, I have tried a friends pair of DT770's, they were very comfortable but I couldn't stand the closed-back nature of them. They seemed to lie to you with their EQ curve. I'll post a more detailed comparison between K702's and the Dt770's.
I preferred my old Grado Sr60's to the Dt770's though. I felt like they told me more about the music I was listening to. While the DT770's lied a bit.
I do say though, I have tried a friends pair of DT770's, they were very comfortable but I couldn't stand the closed-back nature of them. They seemed to lie to you with their EQ curve. I'll post a more detailed comparison between K702's and the Dt770's.
I preferred my old Grado Sr60's to the Dt770's though. I felt like they told me more about the music I was listening to. While the DT770's lied a bit.
ze kink
THE BLACK WIZARDS
What about the Audeze LCD-2 or Hifiman HE-500? Could they possibly be made to fit your price range?
I'd also check out the Denon AH-D2000 and D5000, never mind them being closed; they're apparently quite different sounding than most other closed phones. Eg. this video shows some good stuff about the low end on the D2000:
I'd also check out the Denon AH-D2000 and D5000, never mind them being closed; they're apparently quite different sounding than most other closed phones. Eg. this video shows some good stuff about the low end on the D2000:
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks mate, I looked into those Denons because they seemed intriguing. But 25ohms... I literally won't have any chance to run that from my headphone amp. Probably have more luck running it straight from the converter :s
I'm not wrong, am I? The ohmage directly effects how sensitive they are to input levels, right? The ATH-M50s are 50ohm and are way too sensitive. I need something about 4x less!
I'm not wrong, am I? The ohmage directly effects how sensitive they are to input levels, right? The ATH-M50s are 50ohm and are way too sensitive. I need something about 4x less!
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
I don't think you're wrong about the ohmage ermz... I noticed that IMMEDIATELY on the m50's compared to my other headphones
ze kink
THE BLACK WIZARDS
I think the ATH-M50's are actually 38Ω, definitely super easy to drive. What are you using as a headphone amp then, and do you have to use exactly that one?
Now I think if I've understood it correctly, that the benefits of a lower resistance in cans are greater in that they're easier to drive from a variety of sources, but the downside is that they'll require more current to sound good. The sensitivity of the drivers I guess also plays a role, but I'd believe it to be smaller. It does seem that most headphones except for the true audiophile ones come in a lower ohm rating nowadays; the AKG K701's/K702's are no different and are rated at 68Ω IIRC.
Now I think if I've understood it correctly, that the benefits of a lower resistance in cans are greater in that they're easier to drive from a variety of sources, but the downside is that they'll require more current to sound good. The sensitivity of the drivers I guess also plays a role, but I'd believe it to be smaller. It does seem that most headphones except for the true audiophile ones come in a lower ohm rating nowadays; the AKG K701's/K702's are no different and are rated at 68Ω IIRC.
Sacha
Throbbing Member
I don't find the K702s lacking in low end at all, it's just not exaggerated like a lot of cans. They make an awesome 2nd reference IMO
You're right, the M50s are 38Ω (reckon taking a few seconds to google the symbol rather than just typing 'ohms' is worth it?). Even so, I'd prefer something in the 200Ω+ range. I'm using the headphone amp in my 2Control. I don't *have* to use it, but to my knowledge it's a decent amp, and I'd rather not tie up another 2 channels from my converters, and spend another grand or two on an external amp just to account for consumer-level sensitivity on 'professional' headphones (does that make me crazy?).
It's weird... I mean I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but just about everything I'm learning about cans in this generation is leaving me puzzled and disappointed. Seems they all have some major drawbacks, and the developers have made huge concessions for the prosumer market, who appear to expect a great playback experience from their shitty portable mp3 players?
Is there nothing like an Opal, O300 or MM27 monitor equivalent in the headphone world? Surely there is a set that shit on 99% of their competitors, as these do? That's what I'm looking for here. I want to buy a set & then not think about cans for another 10 years.
It's weird... I mean I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but just about everything I'm learning about cans in this generation is leaving me puzzled and disappointed. Seems they all have some major drawbacks, and the developers have made huge concessions for the prosumer market, who appear to expect a great playback experience from their shitty portable mp3 players?
Is there nothing like an Opal, O300 or MM27 monitor equivalent in the headphone world? Surely there is a set that shit on 99% of their competitors, as these do? That's what I'm looking for here. I want to buy a set & then not think about cans for another 10 years.
ze kink
THE BLACK WIZARDS
Well, there's the Stax SR-009 for example, and the Hifiman and Audeze models I mentioned. But I'm guessing they won't be interesting to you, since you claimed that the HD-800's were pushing it too (TBH, I agree). You have checked out Head-Fi already, haven't you? Ignoring the audiophile comments, it's a great source of information. For example, this thread was great read, back when I was deciding on a new pair of cans (and ended up with the HD-650's).
I still think that you need to try the HD-600, many who dislike the HD-650 seem to prefer those more.
OneDaySky
Clint
I've heard the denons have exaggerated bass on them.
Also I know plenty of people who use the k702's while making bass heavy music (Dubstep/Electro house). They're just not ear-thumping with the bass.
Also I know plenty of people who use the k702's while making bass heavy music (Dubstep/Electro house). They're just not ear-thumping with the bass.
So confused at the moment.
Don't really have a chance to try any of these cans, so it will be a blind purchase. The HD-650s seemed great 'on paper' and totally burned me. Just really want to avoid such a situation again.
The K-702s seem like the 'safest' option, from what I've read. They also seem like they very likely aren't the best either though.
Don't really have a chance to try any of these cans, so it will be a blind purchase. The HD-650s seemed great 'on paper' and totally burned me. Just really want to avoid such a situation again.
The K-702s seem like the 'safest' option, from what I've read. They also seem like they very likely aren't the best either though.
