Heathen Crusade III... what's the latest?
- Thread starter General Zod
- Start date
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
NY, the only place where it costs more to park your car than it is to fly.
Folks let's not forget Mistermayhem lives in MN. Not to mention the charm that MN adds to the event from knowing that the majority of the attendees traveled to BFE to see an event of a lifetime. Hold it NY, that entire vibe is ousted and all we are stuck with is a bunch of beaners in corpsepaint who necronoodle dance at Karaoke bars to their friend Lord Jorge doing a shrieking rendition of Shakira's "These Hips Don't Lie".
Note number 3- Jason are you doing the paypal account?!? If not, I'll do it, with 10% of all contributions set aside for the NAACP. (Just to ensure we can travel to St. Paul with out incident.
Folks let's not forget Mistermayhem lives in MN. Not to mention the charm that MN adds to the event from knowing that the majority of the attendees traveled to BFE to see an event of a lifetime. Hold it NY, that entire vibe is ousted and all we are stuck with is a bunch of beaners in corpsepaint who necronoodle dance at Karaoke bars to their friend Lord Jorge doing a shrieking rendition of Shakira's "These Hips Don't Lie".
Note number 3- Jason are you doing the paypal account?!? If not, I'll do it, with 10% of all contributions set aside for the NAACP. (Just to ensure we can travel to St. Paul with out incident.
I'd buy the whole "ProgPower folks are largely fanboys, whereas HC folks aren't" argument, if everyone in this forum wasn't hanging on Nemtheanga's every word like twelve year old girls at a Justin Timberlake show.
Out of curiosity, what exactly is so different about these two groups? You're talking about two groups of people who are passionate about underground, aggressive music. Two groups who largely dress in band t-shirt and jeans. Two groups who have extensive CD collections. Two groups who are willing to travel long distances to see obscure bands none of their friends or family have heard of. Two groups who feel an unspoken bond, with others who they've never met, based solely on a common interest in music. Yeah... night and day.
While the folks who attend HC may enjoy a different brand of Metal than those who attend PP, and perhaps that translates into a different personality type (though I don't see it), in the end, promotion is promotion. Call it a "Black Shield" if you think that sounds more kvlt and attach a different set of perks to it, and in turn a different stigma. However, I don't think you can discount how the best festival in the US was built, when trying to build your own US fest.
Two things built ProgPower; Gold Badges and real headliners. Glenn took a bath on PPI and PPII until he went all in and brought in Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray and Angra. I don't think you'll dispute that you're not going to build a sustainable festival around a crap Power Metal headliner (at an extreme Metal fest) and a line-up that is little more than a glorified Battle of the Bands. Especially not in Minnesota in the dead of winter. Obviously, that wasn't the intent when the planning of HC II started, but it's the way it turned out.
If I was the HC guys, I'd look to sell 100 "Black Shields" on their web site, for $150 each, refundable if the festival doesn't happen. Have a counter on the site, that shows people how close the festival is to either continuing or going under. If they hit their goal, they've got $15K to work with before they have to shell out dollar one. Try to stick with almost all U.S. bands, with the exception of one non-U.S. headliner, and any other non-U.S. bands willing to cover their own travel.
I think you have to separate the fact that you had a great time getting drunk with folks you only see once a year, and putting asses in the seats.
Zod
Dark One
The Tainted Dogma
I wouldn't have a problem with it at all - but Zod actually suggested an idea that might work better given the chance that if the fest doesn't happen the refunds would be a pain. A "pledge" thread where basically a pledge is made that gets collected after the announcement of a potential festival is made and not before. That way, the RC sponsorship $ are on the table, but without the hassle of the unknown status of the fest. Thoughts?
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
Dark One
The Tainted Dogma
Maybe for you, but apparently not for the promoters:
Based on HC1, HC2 happened.
Based on HC2, HC3 may not.
Zod
Reign in Acai
Of Elephant and Man
agreed ... I think the thread was started based on the fact that, yes, the organizers are doing it from the heart and don't regret losing the money ... BUT ... now money and profit is concern #1
it always goddamn ends up being ... ;(
it all goes back to putting butts in the seats, like Zod said ... and no offense to the promoters, but MN in dead of winter is never going to draw big unless this fest is something super unbelieavable with a killer world class lineup.
from what I hear, besides that its in Atlanta, which is always warm and balmy, PP boasts a nice venue and generally more "comfortable" atmosphere so to speak.
SO, realistically thinking ... there are only 2 solutions for a profitable event ...
a) location, location, location ... as they say in the business world
b) really take a chance and shell out big bucks for 1 or 2 real world class bands to anchor it around
Demilich
Remember
never mind the fact that placing your show in January ANYWHERE is not going to draw nearly as many people, with students in class, people recovering from holiday expenditures, weather, and fucking... fuck. I really want to go next time if there is a next time.
Ars Magna
Ars Magna Recordings
I have to agree with this. January is a tougher sell than, say, July. The Milwaukee Metalfest in its heyday was a great festival with good attendance for years. It also had the convenience of being about the only significant fest of its kind for a good period of time. Now there are fests popping up everywhere at all times of the year. I can't speak for these guys, but I always guessed that had at least a little to do with the timing of HC.
As for MN, I was born and raised there (25+ years) and, while I think it is the greatest state in our union, I don't know that a lot of would be willing to risk anything based around a show in January in MN. Weather alone could put the kibosh on the entire thing. Is it a great place? Yes. Is it a great place for a fest? Hell yes. Like I said...greatest state in the union. However, successfull shows have always been hit and miss there. I saw Absu and Enslaved play there a decade ago (a day after I watched them at the Metalfest) to about 15 people. FIFTEEN. That was before Enslaved was getting US Tours. That was when it was very rare to have a Black Metal band from overseas play the Midwest. Fifteen people. I understand that the Watain tour played to a handful, as well. I understand that Watain might not have as wide of an appeal, but it's fucking Watain. You'd think it would at least draw the Black Metal kids from around the state...it didn't.
Anyway, I'm just rambling now. Long story short, I would have to say that I agree that it would probably go over better in a new location and/or at a new slot on the calendar.
On the other hand, the gold passes are a pretty good idea. For a show like that, I would say a good portion of the crowd would be coming from out of town. Those are the dedicated ones that live for the music and the experience. What better way to enhance the experience than to give them a little more access? To further that argument: the best years I had in Milwaukee at the Metalfest were those that I had all access (because of a video show I did and band connections I had). The fact that you can be standing around backstage having a drink and suddenly be speaking with Kerry King because he knows one of the guys you are talking to is magic. But, I digress...
Sanctums
Minnesota Ass Vikings
A) Agreed. As a Minnesota resident, I can tell you; Fucking nobody fills up clubs in winter. It just doesn't happen.
B) Suggestions? I'd say a band the size/popularity of Darkthrone(I'm not sure if they play live) or Borknagar/Vintersorg (which is a fucking great idea if you can get him to play two sets).
Ars Magna
Ars Magna Recordings
Darkthrone will never play live. I keep hoping, but it won't happen. Borknagar would be great. You could have the Borknagar/Vintersorg/Molested trilogy play (assuming Oystein would resurrect Molested...maybe I make it a condition to re-release their stuff...plac HC III or it is off
).
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
(assuming Oystein would resurrect Molested...maybe I make it a condition to re-release their stuff...plac HC III or it is off
Holy shit, if Molested fucking played, I would sell my kidney to get there.
JayKeeley
Be still, O wand'rer!
That's how it appears on the surface but that's not what I'm talking about, and it's certainly not the vibe I get. Far far from it.
But not every venture has to turn into a profitable scheme where the line up naturally becomes inferior by the year, just to get cheaper bands and cream more profit.
By the way, how did HC2 become a "battle of the bands"? Not sure if I follow. It was a 2 day event with superb performances on each night, like any great 2 day fest.
Of course, it's not up to me, but I'd hate to see this low-key gathering with smaller underground intl' bands turn into a massive seated auditorium with rockstar bands only interested in selling records and making the billboard top 10 in Finland.
Of course. I'm talking about my experience at HC, not what the promoters are trying to achieve.
It's just never going to happen in this scene of music, none of these bands are candidates for headlining Wacken, so it's inherently impossible to force HC into becoming something so glossy as ProgPower.
It's just not realistic, so you have to work around those smaller parameters. In my opinion, every single thing about HC is perfect -- from the venues, to the bands, to the hotels, and I'm even ok with the location especially since I recognize that that's where the promoters live.
The only thing that needs changing is selling more tickets. And that onus is either on (a) more fans buying tickets, or (b) the music suddenly becoming as popular as Nightwish or Epica.
Hint: The answer is (a).
JayKeeley
Be still, O wand'rer!
Actually, I think it's a combination of HC1 + HC 2. It's an accumulative loss, since neither were 'profitable'.
If allowed, we'd go for it, no questions asked. It was an awesome show to be part of.
JayKeeley
Be still, O wand'rer!
Give me an example of a "world class band" in the pagan/black/viking metal scene that would bring people in their droves?
Obviously it would have to be someone 'bigger' than Moonsorrow, Primordial, Thyrfing, or Bal Sagoth since all four of those bands couldn't muster the ticket sales either.
We've heard rumous of Ancient Rites and Horna. I can't see either of those suddenly turning things around.
It would have to be a band willing to play the one-off show where people would be forced to travel to see them, so that would immediately count out Immortal or Emperor (since no way are they coming all the way to the US to play one show).
Not sure if they would headline, but based on all this logic, I see Agalloch as being MANDATORY. Likely to play a one-off show, they're on the verge of becoming the next Opeth, and fans will travel.
The vibe I get from the two festivals is very similar.
I'm not talking about making it a cash machine, only sustainable.
The majority of the roster was stocked with unsigned bands.
I assume this isn't a direct response to anything I said. My suggestion was one overseas headliner, not Finland's Top 10.
No one's talking about it becoming "glossy", only sustainable.
Accept for the fact, that as is, it won't survive?
Agreed. And the only real way to do that is with a real headliner; Amon Amarth, Enslaved, Satyricon, Dimmu Borgir, Gojira, etc. By the way, all of those bands have had their videos played several times on the Headbanger's Ball. Neither Epica nor Nightwish have ever had a video played on MTV.
By the way, none of the bands on this year's ProgPower roster have ever had a video on the HBB, save Firewind.
Zod
